When you think about it, this episode mostly served as filler - filling in the gaps in storyline that a lot of us had theorized, but had no confirmation for, over the course of this season and last. We learned that Tom is gay (in a totally unnecessary and weird scene), that Michael was indeed Ben's man on the boat (and how he communicated with Ben on the Island), and that Michael made it back to the real world before setting off on the Frieghter. Aside from the shocker ending, it was pretty much 95% flashback filler without any huge reveals.
So what is there to discuss?
- For starters, who killed Karl and CFL (maybe) at the end of the episode? Weren't we promised a CFL flashback by the writers seasons ago? Will that now be told through an "Island flashback" or something? Or is CFL not really dead? Smart money is on Frank taking a group of Freightors to the Island (remember how he was on a "mission" last episode?), which ties into the scene of the Freightors taking target practice during the flashback. Frank likely had no idea what the mission was, but this means there are Freightors on the Island, and they're looking to kill some Others.
- The Oceanic Six = Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Sun, and Aaron (at least per the episode preview at the end). I guess I'll allow this for now, mostly since I've been drinking all day.
- The Island doesn't let you die until it wants you to die... does that mean that Tom and the other Others who died at the end of last season had already completed their "missions"?
- The writers creatively sidestepped the whole "warp zone" subject matter by starting with Michael back in New York, but it clearly happened based on the timeline of this episode. That's the only way to allow Michael to return back to the "real world" two months after he disappeared (per his mom) since he left the Island roughly two months after the crash. Even still, the timeline is really tight - Michael was gone for two months... which means it was November 22 when he returned to NYC - then got on the boat and spent about a month there leading up to present Island time, which is about December 28. But it would still work enough that we just have to deal with Funky Space, not Funky Time.
- Walt is not on the Island. The aging of Walt will NOT be an issue, as he should only appear in flashforwards from here on out.
- Ben (and the Others) are really the good guys. My theory from the start stands! Widmore planted the Fake Crash Site, he's the one who will ruthlessly kill, and he's the one who wants to exploit the Island.
Okay - it might be a bit before my full analysis, but those are my initial thoughts. Back to basketball.
Discuss.
114 comments:
Maybe been knew Karl and CFL would die...leaving Alex to be all his yet again. Brilliant!!!
*Ben* ...not 'been'
Why did Michael's Libby visions (like Hurley had Charlie visions) tell him not to do it? Did Sayid purposely sacrifice Michael to get on the captain's good side? Did Alex get re-cast?
no..Alex did not get re-cast. Still played by Tania Raymonde.
I'm not convinced that CFL is really dead... but if Ben is behind the shootings, I'm sure he wanted Karl dead to protect Alex. If she gets pregnant, she'll die. Did you see Ben give Alex and Karl the evil eye early in the episode when they were cooing over Aaron? And if that's the case, I wonder if CFL is actually in on it.
Overall, not a bad episode, but definitely a filler.
I don't rule anything out on this show. It's unlikely that Widmore is the gooe guy, but it's also possible that Ben planted the plane. They DID have all the documentation.
Doesn't that mean that Ben had Karl and CFL Killed? We know he hates Karl....and he didn't want Alex to know that CFL was her mother. BUT..the guns aren't like any we've seen on the island.. but not like target practice on the boat either.. and Lepidus was on a mission... and we do know that a 'war' is coming to otherville.
From the preview at the end.
I find the images of Libby interesting.. is this the island?
I'm not sure I like the 'island won't let you die' thing. I suppose it would explain Locke's shooting, but all the innocents that have died? Obviously, if Karl is dead, the island wishes it.
Kind of a letdown of an episode.. easily, the weakest of the season. ... the suicidal tendancies.. i'm just not buying it. The backstory wasn't anywhere near as cool as people had hypothisized on blogs. I was waiting for something cool like the boat ended up in new york.
In all honesty, while still my favorite show on TV, it's not as GREAT as I used to think it was. it's stepped back to really good.. or maybe.. I'm just hooked and want to finish the story.
OK.. I said it... and now. I have to wait weeks to find out who about the gunfire at the end.. and I can't wait.
Heeeeelllllpppp! Missed at least 1st half of the ep due to a TV/Cable glitch, saw only about last 20 min. What did I miss? Don't have any PC speakers so can't watch - I mean, hear - vids of eps online. What happened? Anybody?
And whose names were recited to Michael as still needing help on the Island? Missed that also. (Sniffle)
First of all, this episode was amazing. Calling it 'filler' is about the most pessimistic way of viewing the episode. I mean we knew going into it that it was going to explain how Michael came to be on the freighter, and it delivered on that promise. The flashback was very interesting, very well done, and the whole thing with sayid at the end has me anxious as hell for April 24.
The island not letting people die is brilliant. That pretty much confirms that the people from 815 that are on the Island are all there for a reason. This could explain why Jack was flung from the crash unharmed. This also definitely confirms why Jack wants to go back. He can't kill himself until he does what he is supposed to do.
The question is, what are they supposed to do? Defend the Island from the freighters? Reconcile their pasts on an individual level? Save the world???
crazy idea...i have been drinkin a bit cause i was watchin my UCLA Bruins lay the smackdown on mississippi valley st...anyway back 2 my crazy idea...wat if CFL is really Annie?
I don't know who's story to believe, Ben's or Widmore's. I do know, however, that Ben is evil. He proved it again in this episode, when he sent Karl and Rousseau to their deaths, just like he sent Goodwin to his. The man does not like relationships!
Some filler yes, but some new stuff too. The whole "the island won't let you die" thing - does that apply to everyone or just certain people? Tom's "coming out" scene was awkward. I can't believe Michael told Walt about him killing Libby & Anna Lucia to save him - talk about giving your kid some issues. I was surprised at how quickly Sayid decided to trust the captain & turn Michael over to him. I laughed when I saw Ben glaring at Karl's hand on Alex's rear - or close to it. I would like to think it's not a set up by Ben & I'm hoping CFL is still alive for her flashback, though maybe that was lost in one of the cut epis.
The next five epis will definitely move faster than they have before. I'm curious about what we'll lose in those three epis that were cut. Maybe the CFL flashback went out the door & they made her dead? I know up to this point prestrike there wasn't an issue but they could have adjusted it afterwards.
Good episode. I wouldn't call it filler, more like staging -- probably why the producers wanted to end the first part of the season with last week's show.
I buy "the Island won't let you die". It's the only thing more manipulative than Ben.
And hey, we all knew that Tom was gay. He said as much to Kate when they captured her and gave her that dress -- she didn't want him to watch her change into it, remember. I don't recall word-for-word what he said to her, but it was something along the line of "Honey, you aren't my type". More so how he said. It makes sense he'd find some action while on shore leave.
I don't think Ben was involved with the show-end shootings. No, I'm not 100% because it's Ben, but I think it's in character for him to be genuinely worried about Alex and wanting her to be safe and not in a place where she could be used against him. Of course, he's not one to be duped, so my conviction warbles a bit more. Maybe it was him...
I do agree with you that Ben is actually on the right side on this particular issue (I still don't consider him a good guy though) and that the freighters/Widminions are bad, but I am not ready to write Faraday and Frank off yet. I think (especially after this episode) that they have been lied to and could come over to the good side. Faraday said that 'rescuing you isn't our main objective' or something of the like, implying that he was under the impression that they are going to try to rescue them. Frank has obviously been lied to, plus I just think he is a good guy. My jury is still out on Charlotte, but we'll see. My biggest fear right now is that two of my favorite characters, Desmond and Sayid, are stuck in a very dangerous situation by being on that boat with those people. They said in the preview that we will find out soon how the Oceanic 6 get off the island, Desmond is not one of the 6, therefore he either gets off of the boat somehow or dies. Lets hope it is the former.
The island not letting them die also explains Mikael being shot etc and living until he kills charlie.
Did anyone catch the game show that was on the TV in Michael's room. The answer to one of the questions was Kurt Vonnegut, and the next question was who was the protagonist. Another hint at Billy Pilgrim and Slaughterhouse Five, but how does it fit with "funky time"?
Kamama94 - Do you have headphones of some kind? You can listen that way. If not, you can always read a short recap at www.televisionwithoutpity.com
and in a few days they should have a full recap of the show posted.
Filler, Brian? Were you a little surly after drinking all day? That episode was fantastic. I don't mean to get on your case about it, but lately I've noticed your becoming pretty cynical. Anyway, I'm a long time reader and will continue to be one. Buck up Champ!
we already knew tom was gay. he said more than once kate wasn't his type, and then it came out last season.
smokey killed danielle & crazy carl. i think smokey is jacob.
AGAIN!!! nobody else caught this??? i'm in shock!
SMOKEY KILLED THEM!!
You can see it!
Really? The episode was one of the more poorly written and poorly directed/pieced together episiodes in any season of lost. Choppy, questionable statements, logic and story lines.
I find it really hard to believe that the freighter people would hire a guy without question from New York to work as a deck hand on a crappy ship in the south pacific.
Given their mission, If they really believe or say that Ben planted the plane, wouldn't they scan these people better? at least check their cargo... or get a good answer to 'why' you're here. Then you have the phone call... someone calls and says they're walt, but it's Ben. How stupid are these people! You have this guy from New York taking a low paying janitorial job and somehow payed for the flight to Fiji. He won't talk about his past, and then you suddenly have a sabatour? Really?
Killing himself... seems drastic for having your son not speak to you. He'll want to talk to his dad eventually... seems drastic. I know it was a method for explaining how Jack was unable to kill himself,etc.... but it doesn't add up. What about Goodwin, The lady Sun shot, all the survivors that were killed. It just doesn't add up.
I also didn't like the way it was written, pieced together, etc. However, it is part of the Lost drama, and I consider this show to be destined to be the best saga in TV history... hands down.
But I agree with Brian, this is more filler. I can see why they wanted the cliffhanger to be LAST episode.
But doesn't Smokey prefer to smash people into the ground instead using a sniper rifle with a silencer?
I will never, never believe that Ben and his people are the good guys. Even if his purpose is seemingly benign, the end does not justify the means! Good people don't do the crappy things Ben habitually does.
I didn't like this episode at all! I felt like it raised too many continuity issues and created contrived explanations.
I'd accept that from Dallas or Dynasty...not from Lost.
There is no way in the world today that anyone...Ben, Widmore, anyone else, could stage a fake plane crash and not have the guy who helped paint the Oceanic logo on the plane run to the media for his 15 min of fame.
I also do not believe they would leave the remains of those victims without making some sort of attempt to indentify those on board.
I also can not see Ben as a good guy. What he said to Michael about not wanting to kill innocents is such bull. This is the guy who wiped out everyone involved in Dharma and ordered his people to kill anyone who tried to protect the pregnant women from being kidnapped. I think Ben was manipulating Michael, making him wallow in his guilt so that he would do what Ben wanted.
First of all, this is my first time writing and I love this discussion. very informed and smart.
Desmond wouldn't be one of the Oceanic 6 because he wasn't on the plane. I'm holding out hope for an eventual Desmond/Penny reunion.
and Ben is evil!
It's also my first post in this blog but I'm reading it since season 4 episode 2, and I'm loving it. Keep up the good work Brian.
There's a question that might have been already answered in the past but I guess I didn't catch it. Do you guys remember that episode in season 2 named "Lockdown" or maybe it was at the start of "Dave" episode, I don't remember well. Anyway, one of those episodes after the steel doors from the hatch opened again we saw a plane (Don't really remember if we saw it, but at least we heard it) dropping food supplies branded as Dharma. Wouldn't that imply that Dharma is still active? ( If this has been already discussed I apologize)
About this episode I don't have much to say. It was a good episode. I still don't know who to trust (Ben or Widmore) and it's driving me crazy!!! ;p Looking forward for the next episode.
By the way I'm writing from Portugal!
To gg - Thanks for the info & link. Don't have headphones either (it really sucks, being poor, LOL) but maybe can get enough details from transcript to understand what happened.
To Brian - Thnx & may your teams always win & congrats on your upcoming wedding & move!
To everyone - I take it there was a Michael-Walt scene where Waaalllttt stops speaking to Daddy?
When/where does he have the line, "I'm here to die"?
And pparently there was a coming-out-of-the-closet scene about Tom? How was it awkward, as someone said?
Makes me wonder what else I missed - any mention of Jin?
And who did Ben tell Mikey was still on Island he needed tp save? I caught Jack, Kate, Aaron but not the rest.
I have to say I really didn't think what little bit I saw was "filler," even that small slice answered some questions IMHO but can't say for sure since only saw last portion of epis.
Thnx in advance to anybody who can fill me in! Sign me "Whiney" & "Still Mad At TV Manufacturer & Cable Company"
Just to clarify we can't be sure Tom is Gay. All we saw was him get kissed on the cheek by a guy. The CHEEK not the lips they weren't holding hands or anything. There are many culutres were close friends saw goodbye with a kiss just like that guy did when he left the room.
Here is my main reason for thinking he's not gay. Tom doesn't get to the mainland much so it's highly doubtful that this other guy is just hanging around waiting for his next visit. Plus I doubt that he's just some random guy that Tom picked up because he told him all about Michael and their confrontation in the Alley. Which to me means that he has business dealings with Tom since we all know the Others don't give out any info unless they have too.
We have all speculated how far reaching Ben's power is off the Island so it only stands to reason that they would have to have Business contacts who stay off Island permanently to facilitate whatever needs might arise like getting/making Michael fake passport. Tom didn't print that at home
Did anyone else notice that Alvar Hanso was in the hospital bed next to Michael?
Remember back in season 3 when Tom told Kate "Sorry, you're not my type". Many people had speculated him being gay at that point.
Also, did you see him throw that football back in season 3?
The later is a jest, but this has been hinted at before. So what if the character is gay, if just felt it was uneccesary.
Something is troubling me from the moment Ben appeared on the show. I'm not sure if he is a good guy or not, but i think that if he was a good guy why all the mystery? He could just talk to our suvivors and tell them the whole truth. Why keep so many secrets? Why risk his own safety or his daughter's in order to keep his precious secret? Wouldn't it be easier to just say "Hey, i'm a good guy and i can prove it?"
Anyway, about Michael i agree with the friend that said that it seems hard to believe that the people from the freightor hired a guy without question to work as a deck hand.
And what about Frank? He just walks to a complete stranger, a man who he never met before and starts saying about Oceanic 815 and how it's all a big concpiracy?
And one last thing : What's that thing inside Karl's ear while he's lying on the ground?I didn't get a good look at it.
I think Kate is hot but my brother prefers Claire. This doesn't mean he's gay just that kate is not his type either.
dana said "Did anyone else notice that Alvar Hanso was in the hospital bed next to Michael?"
um...no?! wow good call!
Frank's heli was not on the deck when the captain was beating the crap out of those poor bastards. Where would he be going to but the island? Also, none of the guys that were playing with the machine guns (in the flashback) was there either...
Yeah, I saw that thing in his ear too. I thought I saw something in Alex's right ear, too. Monitors? Really strange...
I can't wait for the rest of the season. They've been so careful not to have any Sawyer, Claire, or Locke-centric episodes - I'm so eager to see what happens to them!
I thought the episode was great. And then I see everyone else's "filler" comments... buzzkill. Yeah, it was predictable but it was still spectacularly made. I wouldn't expect anything less from Lost.
Ben definitely set up the shooting. Did you see his evil grin after they went out the door? Yeah he cares about Alex, she didn't have a scratch on her, but he doesn't care about the other two. Shows what a manipulation his conversation with Michael was. "I don't kill innocents", baloney!
I kept wondering why CFL was being so trusting all of a sudden. It doesn't make sense.
Well it looked to me that the Capitan wasn't with a face of "big surprise" when Sayid was telling him who Michael actually was. :\
Requesting this to be analyzed in your analysis- are we allowed to do that?=)- 1. Why are the people on the island satisfied with Miles' answer of "we're here for him"? I mean, why don't they go, "why are you here for him??".
2. I kind of thought that the scene where Michael drives into the wall at the beginning was a flash forward, and that everything else was a flash-back, or flash-between if you will. I can't remember why I thought this, but there was a definite reason 3. Didn't someone on the freightor say something that might have suggested that Ben was responsible for all of those bodies? Like, "where do you get 240 (or whatever) bodies?" in regards to Ben? So now why is Charles the one who got all of the bodies? 4. As far as Sayid revealing Michael, I think that the captain is going to know that Michael is undercover or whatever. Ok that's it.
NOTHING bugs me more than people who feel every episode of LOST has to be perfect and feel "let down" by a TELEVISION SHOW.
Get a job as a LOST writer if you think you can do it better.
Do I think all episodes are equally good? Of course not! But I still thoroughly enjoy it and applaud the writers for creating a show like no other!
Went to website gg recommended - excellent!
BTS, know it's off-topic but has everyone heard Arthur C. Clarke (as in "The City And The Stars," "Childhood's End," "Rama," through "2001: A Space Oddysey" & :2010") passed away this week?
Can't help wondering what he would've made of Lost since he professed no religion but sent his DNA to NASA to take into deep space. . .
OK, sorry, just that Lost in some ways reminds me of some of the events in his Rama series. Does anyone else think so, too?
Oops, can't type today. Meant BTW, not BTS
I assumed Michael wanted to kill himself because he killed two people and betrayed the other survivors, not because his kid won't talk to him. Explains the Libby "visions"- his guilty conscience. I understand he would then want to help save those he betrayed, but they lost me where Michael agreed it was okay to kill everyone on the boat to do that.
The guy that painted the oceanic logo on the side of the airline (in someone else's example)...if he was killed after providing such a service it would explain why he hasn't come forward for his 15 minutes. Ditto any others involved that couldn't be bought off.
Did anyone else catch that glance from the captain as Sayid initially approached Michael on deck? That along with his unsurprised look when Sayid is ratting out Michael make me think he already knew.
So the banging on the pipes that Sayid heard- was that Michael throwing the ball against the wall? Still wonder if he wrote the Don't Trust the Captain note or if there is someone else friendly on the boat.
If Freightors have already been dropped off on the island and they are who killed Karl and CFL, maybe they will now take Alex hostage to manipulate Ben...just like he didn't want to happen.
So disappointed when people don't like an episode...quit overanalyzing and start enjoying some darn good tv! :)
I assumed he was willing to blow up the ship because he was hoping it would take him with it.
The thing with Tom was just uneccessary in that while its been hinted at before that he is gay, to just throw in a kiss with some random guy a flat out reveal that hidnt further anything... it was even anti cimatic in a way. Plus I think there is anyone who doubts that Tom is only gay because he was the face o fear and evil in the first season and slowly but surely everything has been thrown out there since then to show that once "not everything is as it seems". Really just one of the shows lamer & cheaper attempts at what one of the biggest aspects that the show is known for...
I think the Tom is gay thing is just meant to be humerous.
I think it's obvious that the pilot guy and the guys shooting buckshot off the boat are the ones responsible for shooting CFL and Alex's BF. The shots were more buckshot-like than bullet-like. It also explains where the helicopter is.
As mentioned earlier, Sayid ratting out Michael is not plausible. Sayid is way too strategic to simply rat the guy out after.....
1. Sayid would realize that Michael may have been the guy who wrote them the note indicating he is willing to help them.
2. Sayid would want to extract whatever information Michael may have have related to the boat and the captain, etc.
3. Sayid would realize it may do him no good to rat Michael out. Michael is too measured in ALL his past tactics to rat Michael out with blind hope that this will make the captain trust him.
4. On a related matter, Desmond's appearance in the script was awkward...Does Desmond know who Michael is?
This aspect of the show was not plausible to me and troubling....a bit forced....not engaging story-writting.
As for Tom...yeah, we've known he's probably gay and throwing it in, as the writters did, was a bit gratioutious (sp?) and in the context it was, seemed forced.
My two favorite things about this episode were perhaps the allusions to Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse-Five [italicized] and Kubrick's The Shining [italicized]. A lovely crafting of science-fiction and horror.
The whole "the island won't let you die" thing seemed very easily staged on the Others' part. They know he's had a near miss with his car-suicide-attempt, so they switch guns on him and convince him that the island wants him to work for them. (Even so, I can't believe he bought it - he doesn't even look for proof that the freighters mean harm to the survivors.)
Do we know yet what next (April) epis will be about?
good question Kamama. anyone?
what about the sanctuary? is this new? have we heard of it b4?
As per the Official Podcast episode 4.09 will be called "The Shape of Things to Come". This is rumoured to be a Ben and/or Sayid episode.
Ben or Sayid is OK with me. Don't like him but Ben fascinates me. His character wouldn't work as well if Jack & Kate & Locke & some of the others would ask obvious questions instead of just letting him manipulate. . . Sayid, the "Steady Smolderer" - assassin & torturer or not, he's one of my faves. Unless it's Jin. Unless it's Hurley. Bumbling, amiable Hurley, even his "bad" acts (except his last "betrayal") are laughable & forgiveable. Understand but can't stand Michael, thought Sun shoulda slapped Juliet harder, Kate can't make up her mind, and Jack has become a wimp. Maybe after the break some of these guys/gals will redeem themselves?
Read an interesting theory in an ABC thread that maybe there really ARE 2 or more of these folks including those who appear to have died) due to funky space/funky time and there's no conflict about the future changing the past because they're in alternate realities. I dunno, sounds interesting but still quite a stretch. BC how to explain those who don't exist in a co-reality like Regina-in-the-chains-jumping-off-the-freighter last epis? And what about Jin - is he really dead or is he alive on the Island in one reality, dead in another? Maybe a clue lies in Charlie's line to Hurley that he's dead but he's also real. Maybe there's a clue in the very first epis of S1 where Jack's running out of jungle to crash site - was he already ON the Island from an alternate future/reality/paarallel existence? Since I missed most of Meet Kevin Johnson, didn't get to see Michael's "haunting," just heard about it on the board, but maybe there IS something going on with Lost like Schrodinger's cat!
OK, I'll shut up now (after I've just PROVED "Lost" has sent me around the bend! LOL
Those of you who actually saw the whole epis & heard the dialogue, what do think of Michael's haunting?
And who did Ben tell Mikey was still on Island he needed to save? I thought I caught Jack, Kate, Aaron but not the rest.
listen closely to the 4.09 preview, you can hear the smoke monster!
For anyone else who was wondering as I was, finally found answer to question I asked twice on this board in recap at ABC's Lost site, repro'd in part below:
"At the port of Suva in Fiji, Michael meets George Minkowski and Naomi when he reports for duty. Naomi tells him a crate arrived for him. Friendly calls him on his cell phone and asks if he got the package. Michael says yes. Friendly tells him to wait until they're in the open sea before he opens it. Michael is starting to get cold feet about it now, and Friendly reminds him of Sun, Sawyer, Jack, Claire and her baby back on the island and asks if Michael's in. Yeah, Michael's in."
-end of recap summary.
I notice Friendly doesn't mention Kate, Hurley or Sayid. Or Jin. Any significance to those omissions? Anyone?
A couple of comments... I have heard speculation that the people that killed Karl were in fact not Others but people hired by Widmore. How they got to the island without being detected, etc doesn't really make much sense. Neither does why they would be using blow darts and not machine guns.
Ben may have wanted to have Karl killed but I can't see why he would have Danielle killed.
As for the powers of the island... It seems like the island has complete control over everything. Why it needs people to protect it doesn't really make sense if it can jam guns in NYC.
I just rewatched this episode. Two thoughts.
When Michael was on the boat talking to Frank, there was only one helicopter on the deck. Wasn't it speculated that there had to be two, Frank's and the one that crashed after Naomi ejected? Or was that the same one?
Also, why would the Others need to put Michael on the boat? For a group of people who can go anywhere, change their appearance and apparently can't die, why not use one of their own. I would think Patchy would fit right in on that crew.
Also, a lot of funky time at work in this episode. In the span of about a month, Michael makes it back to NY, attempts to kill himself, recovers from a near fatal crash, travels bcak to the far side of the world and gets on a boat...all before Christmas!
With all due respect to other Losties, personally am getting a bit tired of the whole thing. A writer's strike is no excuse for unresolved cliffhangers, camera errors, prop errors, etc. I love fantasy, sf, & mysteries but frankly am getting worn out with Lost's continued unanswered questions. Cliffhangers usually are fun but IMHO it's a pain in the keester when we have to wait weeks or more to learn a resolution to aspects left up in the air on a previous episode. Not good writing, IMO. Really good writers know just when to tell what, how much & how little, and when to explain the hitherto unexplained. Wouldn't be surprised if Lost loses a bunch of viewers this season, not just because of the hiatuw to April but also due to the "mistakes" or "errors" in the script, in the timelines,in the shooting, in the props, etc. Am really tempted to stop watching altogether until we learn if there really will be a final episode where everything is resolved - whether people live or die, whether the Island's on funky time, in a space warp, a parallel universe or whatever. (I'd even be satisfied if the writers/plots/dialogues came right out and said, "Hey, this is fiction, of course there are anomalies.") At least then we could decide whether to watch re-runs of all the seasons of "get lost" from Lost!
BTW, does anybody remember what episode duplicated Rabbit #15?
I still think Lost's action is taking place in alternate/parallel realities - which would at least explain SOME things! - but don't remember the Rabbit episode.
Also, does anyone have a list of the pilot epi's "clues" the writers insist occur in it?
Please help!
Feel frree to email me if you have anaswers. :0)
They cast a different actor for Walt, right? it sure looked like a different boy to me.
And that really looked like Alvar Hanso in the hospital.
Compare: http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2008/03/ hospital-bed-man.html
kamama94: I think Tom's list of names while he was on the phone with Michael was random. He says to Michael something about how he doesn't want to do it now that he's put names with faces, well here are some other names for you and starts naming people on the island. Just an attempt to guilt Michael into going through with it. I don't think there was any
significance in included or omitted names.
As for a list of clues from the pilot epi, seems to me we won't know for sure until the end. I've seen all sorts of things discussed and refuted. But we won't know for sure that something was a clue until we have all the answers. Anyway, try googling, there are a ton, here's one for you:
http://au.messages.yahoo.com/lost/theories/4979/
"Cliffhangers usually are fun but IMHO it's a pain in the keester when we have to wait weeks or more to learn a resolution to aspects left up in the air on a previous episode." Um, yeah. How did you ever get past season one?
I thoroughly enjoy LOST and while it is a bit annoying to have to wait weeks/months to find out what happens, it's the ONLY show in TV right now that makes me think. I can talk to other LOST fans for hours about theories and past episodes.
Take it for what it is, a TV show. It's made by people and aired on free TV. Really folks, no body is making you watch it and your not paying to see it. I don't expect it to be perfect, but it certainly is enjoyable.
Thanks Brian for all the time you put into your blog. I have been a faithful reader since the summer between season 1 and 2. Looking forward to the next episode!!!
There has been speculation that the actor in the bed next to Michael in the hospital is that of Alvar Hanso. Although a resembelence may exist between the two characters, it is very unlikely that a man of Hanso's means and wealth would be in a semi-private hospital room with Michael!
It seems pretty obvious what the plot is about at the final scene when Rouseau and Karl get shot. The freightor people are trying to capture Alex to use as a hostage to get Ben out of hiding. Ben sending the 3 of them to the "sanctuary" is a red-herring IMO....I don't think Ben plotted to have the two of them killed or, for that matter, had anything to do with this event....just a cleaver plot device the writters conceived of to throw us off. Any alternate thoughts? Brian???
why is Rousseau called CFL?
thanks
Anonymous: because she's a Crazy French Lady, lol.
I had the same question a while back, Brian came up with it.
Have been re-reading episode recap of Flashes Before Your Eyes & it was almost like I was on the verge of understanding the Island & timelines, etc., then the "aha!" moment was lost, no pun intrnded. But it set me to thinking about Michael & Walt. Michael says he's there to die. But as others have suggested, he's there to redeem himself, in Walt's eyes perhaps if in nobody else's? So am wondering if Walt is like Desmond, who goes back into the past where he "remembers" the future, only Walt is aware of past, present & future all at once & doesn't experience the side effects others experience. Maybe that's why Walt is so "special." And maybe the universe's "course correction" won't let Michael did until he's supposed to?
Thoughts on this anybody?
I meant, won't let Michael die, not did. Sorry.
is Brian away? anyone??
Offical Podcast: They explain the appearance of certain paranormal events and what they are....
Ben's mother=apparition
Sawyer's Boar=animal
Spider=monster
Hurley bird=no comment
Dave=apparation/imagination
Yemi=Monster
Kate's horse=undead
Mikail' Cat Nadia=animal
Walt=some have been apparition, some have been monster
Boone in Locke's dream=dream
*Lepidus name in Expose script that Hurley read is just a name one of the writers in fond of.
*Is Aaron in danger since he is being "Raised by Another"? The psychic told Claire that she must raise the baby herself. They leave it up to the viewers if you believe if the psychic is real or not.
*Significance of name Kevin Johnson.....the Others chose the most innocuous and bland name they could so as not to raise suspicion and raise attention to Michael's alias.
*Will learn much more about four-toed statue and Black Rock.
*Secret code name for the finale twist "The Frozen Donkey Wheel"
Several people (including yours truly) have suggested that Lost may be based on "parallel" universes or alternate realities. But all along Brian has commented on funky time. So I got to wondering, when Ana Lucia appears to Hurley in the convenience store and Charlie at the asylum, are they from the future trying to get him to go back and change the past so they are no longer "dead" in the future? Ouch! Now I havae a headache!
Could Michael's dreams/visions have a similar "purpose?"
Although I can't be sure, I think Kate, Jack and Sayid haven't ever (yet) "seen dead people" but Jack still wants to go "back" - in time/the Island or just TO the Island? If he does go back, whatwho would he find there?
Are there any Losties who have NOT committed murder? If so, who are they? I was going to run a tally but got sidetracked.
Also, if Ben is behind the Karl assasination (and I'm not saying he is) could his motive be revenge for Karl warning the Losties that the Others were coming?
My, my, but that next (April) episode seems a long "time" off!
Thanks for sharing that about the official podcast and the Frozen Donkey Wheel, Anonymous. Gives me something to look forward to.
kamama94, I don't think Hurley saw Ana Lucia in the convenience store. I'm pretty sure it was Charlie both times.
Thanks, Anonymous. Don't remember now how Ana Lucia got into my post! LOL
Anonymous, I think Brian is on his honeymoon.
Why are the filthy gunmen and other freightors so impatient about sailing to the island?
I'm saying directly; maybe there's something on the island to loot? Money? This explains why Miles wanted 3.2 m from Ben..
Adam said...
"I don't know who's story to believe, Ben's or Widmore's. I do know, however, that Ben is evil. He proved it again in this episode, when he sent Karl and Rousseau to their deaths, just like he sent Goodwin to his. The man does not like relationships!"
I agree. There is no way I will ever believe that Ben is good. He gassed a whole group and killed his father in cold blood. Widmore may be an arrogant pig, but we have yet to be enlightened on any evil acts he has committed. I think and have thought from the beginning, that Ben orchestrated the fake plane crash. Didn't someone on the boat say that?
The other inconsistency is Walt. Am I missing something? Mike's mom said that he left for 2 months, and didn't say where he was. Walt is now living with Grandma. Why was this not addressed? I'm so confused.
No honeymoon yet - that'll be during the first episode after the spring break. Instead, I was just onsite for work this week, unable to Blog. It might not be until next week until the "Meet Kevin Johnson" analysis is up, but it'll be up as soon as I get the chance!
I noticed during the last episode that while they were panning the camera around Michael's dump of an apt, they started with his kitchen sink and the water was running at a steady stream. (Not a ton of water, but somebody should’ve turned that sucker off.) What I’m getting at is that Widmore left the water on in the bathroom with Desmond before he passed out. Remember? That’s got to be significant.
Rich--I know that the point has been made about Desmond's "time traveling" being connected to touching something metal, and that Widmore may have left the water running with the intention of causing another time shift for Desmond. But, I am curious about water representing something more--particularly when this season there seems to have been quite a bit of footage of these guys drinking from their water bottles on the island. It may mean nothing, but why is it necessary to show us how much/often they are drinking? Do the actors simply need or like to have something to do with their hands?
Guys (and girls of course)
Have a look at this,
http://timelooptheory.com//the_timeline.htm
Its not mine and I dont know the guy who wrote it, but it looked interesting enough....
Comments?
Two thoughts to pay attention to:
1) The gun that Michael tried to kill himself with was given to him by Friendly after the alley fight. It was not his gun. Further, the trigger was never pulled, so maybe it never worked.
2) Maybe Widmore and Ben were on the same page at one point, but everything fell apart. Maybe thats how Ben is loaded, its all Widdy's cash and they had a fall out. Maybe they're related or something.
There's a lot of duality between the two of them and they claim the other is the problem, but maybe they are one in the same, Departed style???
...and i just had another thought.
No one ANYWHERE knows ANYTHING about Ben, but Widmore knows who he is and where he is and that he planted a fake crash???
They were for sure on the same team at one point or another.
Nikolas, I checked out the site and it's verrrrrry interesting. Quite an elegant yet simple theory. Some, if not all, scientists say that the simplest theory usually is best if it also has the "elegance" to explain the most. I know I didn't really say that quite right and oversimplified it but you get the idea.
I have said all along that Charlie, for instance, might be dead in one "alternate reality" but alilve in another. Same with Jin and other people who "died" on the island. . . But while I was thinking in terms of "parallel universes" and "alternate realities" a time loop never ocurred to me. The only problem I have with the guy's time loop theory is the explanation for Smokey - the writer describes what Smokey does and why but not what Smokey really is. Otherwise, the explanation is brilliant. It remains to be seen if it's accurate, though.
Thanks you very much for sharing the URL!
I don't see Nikolas' post here so will give the URL he recommended:
http://timelooptheory.com//the_timeline.htm
Plse forgive typos - don't have spell check & medical condition gets my fingers all goofed up sometimes.
at the end of the series, even if this 'time loop theory' proves to be untrue and inconsistent with the total story arc of LOST, it is brilliant and well conceived. goes to show the intellect (combined with too much time?) LOST audience may posses.
however, it sounds extremely plausible that this may be where the creators heads where at when they created the LOST mythology and story.
hard to absorb but worth trying to wrap your brain around when time permits.
What does everybody else think of the time loop theory Nikolas gave us the URL for? Brian? Anyone?
That time loop theory is full of holes, which I don't feel like taking the time to point all out.
I will however say a few big issues I have with it:
- You can't communicate with the island if it's on a time loop. I don't care if you say they're using "futuristic" satellite phones, radio waves can't time travel.
- If the Flight 815 plane only crashed on the island because of Desmond not pressing the button, then how did Yemi's plane enter and how about Henry Gale and his parachute? (don't tell me they just happened to enter by the 325 bearing, that's too much coincidence).
- We've already seen that the island and the real world are in the same time, not one in 1996 and the other in 2007.
- The show has clearly shown that only Desmond's mind time traveled, not his body.
- And the biggest one: the producers have already said in a podcast that there are NO alternate realities!
That's the same thing as alternate timelines. There are just way too many paradoxes created by this, they said they are "pro time travel, anti paradox."
We've already seen how they do time travel in the show, just rewatch The Constant and Flashes Before Your Eyes.
Good point, Victor C, about Yemi's plane & Henry's parachute. Wonder are close their locations are to plane wreckage.
I thought radio waves - maybe I mean sound waves? - traveled "forever" but I guess they only travel "forward" in time rather than backward.
Am not sure I can understand how alternate realities and time loop are same thing. Though I can't re-watch any of the shows I did go back and read recap of Flashes and agree this is how show presents time travel but later on Charlie does tell Flash Forward Hurley he's dead but also real and says Hurley has to go "back" to the Island, Flash Foward Hurley tells Flash Forward Jack the Island wants them to come "back" and Flash Forward Jack tells Flash Forward Kate they have to go "back" to the Island. And Jack even says he flies Oceanic's Golden Pass all the time hoping the plane will crash and get him to the Island again.
Will be interesting how this is resolved, eh?
BTW, is there some way to read transcripts of podcasts? I havae no puter speakers. :0(
CFL is dead. I loved CFL. Will we ever know what the heck she went through? RIP CFL.
This episode was very flat.
I think this commentary in Salon expresses the same worries I've grown to have with the current season:
http://www.salon.com/ent/tv/iltw/2008/03/30/ullman/index1.html
"[...] the show's writers aren't
making imaginative choices, given the possibilities. Each new plot development feels like it does the quick and dirty work of solving two problems: 1) prolonging the suspense and 2) pulling in some old thread along the way to make it feel more authentic [---] But the plot of each episode accomplishes little beyond those two immediate goals. [---] The flashbacks used to reveal a character's personality and the formative experiences that shaped his or her worldview. Sometime last season, though, they became empty
[---] And now even the flash forwards feel flat."
Here's hoping that this shows signum, deep character driven storytelling, makes a definite comeback late this spring.
To Jon: Agree!
Is this season over already?
Brian? You there?????
Not sure what that means, Anonymous
Clearly kamama has never heard of a little indie rapper known as Jay-Z.
My god, is this what the conversation has devolved to? Please come back Brian.
Oh, I understand now. Have heard of Jay Z, just didn't get the connection. (Duh!) You're right!, Brian's been gone too long, LOL. Maybe we could talk about Lost? Heh, heh.
Not only, where's Brian, where's everybody else?
On another board someone suggested that Rousseau and Karl getting shot might originally have been intended as part of another episode. This is the fir2nd time (1st was Libby) someonegot killed without being listed as a co-star for the show. Even if Rousseau isn't "really" dead but only wounded, we assume she isn't dead yet, in the epis where Ben shoots Locke, we see Locke always with, beside, or near Ben. But in "Meet Kevin," Karl and Rousseau appear about 2 minutes in the beginning and a couple minutes at the end but the rest of the epi doesn't relate to them. Someone said it was like those two scenes were spliced onto "Meet Kevin Johnson".
Maybe Brian's right, due to actors walking off to honor writer's strike, maybe they had to go back and cut and splice epis.
What does everyone else think?
I thought the Karl/CFL shooting might have been added to this episode to give it more of a cliff-hanger feel. There was not supposed to be a gap this season but the writers' strike forced one. I thought they might have been able to put that scene in to keep the interest going over these 4-5 weeks.
C'mon, Brian..... we're dying here!
I'm alive! But barely - I shall do my best to get my long overdue analysis up this weekend. It will probably suck since it's been so long since the episode aired, but whatever :)
will have to rewatch b4 reading analysis.
a hundred and nine comments and sayid ain't one. who thinks he ruined the plan by telling the captain?
Maybe that WAS part of the plan? Michael is Ben's man on the boat. Sayid winds up assassinating folks for Ben. Hmmm. . .
Brian, are you ok?
Sayid would not give Michael up to the captn of the boat without a plan to do so. It would be very out of character for Sayid to act impulsively and without a plan here.
LOCKE’S CAMP COMES UNDER ATTACK, AND JACK ATTEMPTS TO IDENTIFY A BODY THAT WASHES ASHORE, ON ABC’S “LOST”
“Lost” Moves to its New 10:00 p.m., ET Time-slot, Thursday, April 24
“The Shape of Things to Come” – Locke's camp comes under attack, and Jack tries to discover the identity of a body that has washed ashore, on “Lost,” THURSDAY, APRIL 24 (10:01-11:00 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.
“Lost” stars Naveen Andrews as Sayid, Henry Ian Cusick as Desmond, Emilie de Ravin as Claire, Michael Emerson as Ben, Matthew Fox as Jack, Jorge Garcia as Hurley, Josh Holloway as Sawyer, Daniel Dae Kim as Jin, Yunjin Kim as Sun, Evangeline Lilly as Kate, Elizabeth Mitchell as Juliet, Terry O’Quinn as Locke and Harold Perrineau as Michael.
Guest starring are Ken Leung as Miles, Jeremy Davies as Daniel Faraday, Rebecca Mader as Charlotte, Sam Anderson as Bernard, Tania Raymonde as Alex, Alan Dale as Charles Widmore, Marc Vann as doctor, Kevin Durand as Keamy, Yetide Badaki as desk clerk, Kaveh Kardan as merchant, Faran Tahir as Ishmael Bakir and Sean Douglas Hoban as Doug.
“The Shape of Things to Come” was written by Brian K. Vaughan & Drew Goddard and directed by Jack Bender.
Am glad we'll get to see more of Jin, at least for awhile. Most of the posters on various Lost boards seem to think he dies in next episode or the one after. As for the body on the beach, would it be Charlie's or the girl who jumped off the freighter?
Your thoughts?
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