Monday, March 17, 2008

"Ji Yeon" Analysis!

Sorry guys – life is a little crazy right now with everything going on with the big move into the new house and the rapidly approaching wedding. I’m barely finding enough time to eat and sleep, let alone Blog. I apologize in advance for the brevity of this post, as well as the forthcoming “Meet Kevin Johnson” posts, which will probably also suffer big time. The good news is that the break in the season couldn’t have come at a better time for me, and I should be back stronger than ever for the end of the season run starting in late April. But enough about me, on to the analysis:

Answers. Since my Instant Reactions basically posed a number of questions, I thought the best way to analyze the episode would simply to be to attempt to provide answers to the relevant questions (why didn’t I think of this before?).


How did Jin die? There has been a ton of debate over whether Jin is dead or simply still on the Island (not returning with the Oceanic Six) – but for me, this is pretty much a no-brainer: Jin is dead.

It’s easy to argue the other side of the point, since Sun never comes out and actually says that he is dead, and we’ve seen the Oceanic Six (well, at least Jack) lie through their teeth about the fate of the other Survivors, but everything about “Ji Yeon” seemed to point to the opposite for me.

For starters, people have complained that they felt “tricked” by the episode since the Jin flashbacks were simply a plot device to make the audience think he was in the flashforwardy future. It’s a valid complaint, since not a lot of information was gained from the flashbacks, and it was a somewhat gimmicky way to setup the ending – but think about how much more pointless it would be if Jin was actually alive. Talk about a gimmick – that would mean the writers set us up to think Jin was alive, only to trick us into thinking Jin is dead, only to eventually reveal he was alive and well. This would basically render Sun’s flashforward pretty pointless as well, especially the emotional last scene.

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And it’s this scene that really seals the deal for me. Sun is emotional, saying things like “the doctors said I was calling out for you” as if she was not thinking clearly due to the pain of labor… like if she was thinking clearly, she would have never called out for her dead husband. There are also little details like the inclusion of her eventual death on the tombstone (the right hand side lists Jin’s date of birth and death – November 27, 1974 through September 22, 2004, the left hand side lists Sun’s date of birth – March 20, 1980, leaving room for her date of death). If there was any hope of Sun returning to an alive Jin (like, on the Island), I don’t think she would have gone the route of preparing to join him in the same plot of land for all of eternity.

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Finally, there’s the Joss Whedon Factor (a phrase I’m coining that basically means when a character has an ultra-happy closure or overly lovey-dovey scene that they are probably going to die shortly thereafter). The last on-Island scene of the episode was all of this and a bag of chips (is this phrase still valid?). Jin forgives Sun for cheating on him. Jin promises to do “anything” to protect the Sun and the baby. Jin makes Sun dinner (note to self: if the wife ever cheats on me, let her do the cooking for the next few years – it’s the least she can do!). It’s just like at the end of Desmond’s episode this season, I half expected someone to bust in and shoot Desmond on the spot – it was an overly “good” scene on a show that has shown that life (at least off the Island) actually sucks.

I know the first comment is going to be something like “I think Brian is wrong and Jin is still alive”, which is fine – like I said, you can argue it. But for me, it’s pretty clear that our boy Jin is going to die sometime over the next forty episodes.


Who are the Oceanic Six? I refuse to believe that Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Sun, and Aaron are the Oceanic Six. Instead, I’m going with the “ABC Promo Lied to Us” excuse – since the only reason we’re making this assumption is that the preview for “Ji Yeon” promised the last of the Oceanic Six would be revealed. We’ve had them lie to us in the past, so it’s not that far fetched. I’m holding out hope for another reveal (featuring some member of the media actually saying the names of the Oceanic Six), even though at present, I’m struggling to think of who the last member could actually be. Keep in mind, we need to have some of our Survivors on the Island, or else there would be no motivation for the Oceanic Six to “go back”, as we’ve seen hinted at through Jack and Hurley’s flashforwards. I wish it was just the Oceanic Five, or Five and a Half – that would sit better with me than including Aaron in the mix.


Who is the last body? It turns out we’re not supposed to care about the two people who Jack / Kate claimed died after the crash. Thanks to steve for pointing out the following excerpt from a recent interview with show mastergod, Damon Lindelof:

UGO: So the story for the Oceanic 6 is that they came from a group of 8 survivors. Are we going to find out the identity of the other 2 supposedly not so lucky survivors?

DAMON: Well, that is part of the fiction as concocted by the Oceanic 6. Many, many things that Jack said on the stand at Kate's trial were untrue, although he was under oath, like the Marshall dying in the crash for example. We want to be very clear on the idea that there were only ever the Oceanic 6. The identity of those other two people are not as important as people are making them out to be, it just makes it feel like a more believable fiction.

So maybe those two bodies didn’t actually come back with the rest of the Oceanic Six, and there’s no need to debate who joins Jin in the “dead body” section of the rescue vessel. Moving on…


Why did Regina kill herself? The Freighter is getting freakier and freakier. It’s about one ghost Walt appearance away from being a haunted house. People blowing their brains out, becoming “unstuck” in time, tying chains around themselves and jumping off boats? Not exactly a booze cruise. No wonder Faraday and Charlotte aren’t in any hurry to return! I’m thinking it has something to do with prolonged exposure to the Bubble around the Island – which is why our Survivors have been spared, since they quickly passed through it, rather than floating around the perimeter for days / weeks / months. I’m also thinking this could be the same “sickness” that CFL mentioned afflicted her crew, since it’s plausible that they also spent a good deal of time floating around the Bubble before actually crashing on the Island… that, or Ben is sending voodoo powers out to the Freightor crew causing them to kill themselves.

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Why did Michael sabotage the Freighter? An assumption on my part, but it only seems logical. If Michael is working for Ben (another assumption, but pretty likely), it makes sense to stall the Freighter in a spot where it cannot actually get to the Island, but will cause the crew to go insane and kill themselves, making the Freightors less of a threat.

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Where is Walt? I’m thinking Walt was never on the Freighter. While cleaning carpets yesterday (ah, the glamorous life of a Blogger), an idea popped into my head that might tie a lot of storylines together. What if the coordinates that Ben provided Michael lead him to a “warp”, a la Super Mario Bros. level 1-2? So he heads for bearing 325, hits the Bubble and suddenly BAM – he’s right off the coast of New York City? This would give him time to drop off Walt, THEN be contacted by Ben in the real world convincing him to join and sabotage the Freighter crew, and get on the Freighter before it leaves, making him less suspicious when stuff starts breaking on the boat and the communication room gets trashed. The timeline for all of this is tight (about a month), but it would make the most sense.

If you want to get really crazy, you could say that the warp not only moved Michael and Walt in space, but also in time (only fools are enslaved by time and space, anyone?) – padding the timeline a bit.

This “warp” theory also would explain the Dharma Polar Bear that ended up in Tunisia, and maybe explain how the Others are able to exploit their knowledge of these warps to amass massive funds through gambling on sports events (a la Back to the Future II), make quick trips around the world when required to videotape kids playing in a park (creepy Richard Alpert!) or recruit newbies to the Island… and provide a pretty obvious reason why the Freightors would want Ben (and his knowledge), but are willing to kill everyone else in order to take control of such a power.


Do the Freightors really believe Michael's name is Kevin Johnson? Based on the theory above, yes. If Michael gave his real name, they would know he was on Oceanic Flight 815. It’s an alias, like Jennifer Gardner.


Should we believe anything the Captain says? It’s tricky, because we’ve now been told to not trust Ben, and also to not trust the Captain. Basically, both are pointing at the other for being responsible for the Fake Oceanic 815 crash (and the accompanying 324 dead bodies). In my mind, it makes more sense to have Ben stage the crash, even though Widmore seems like the one who would have the resources to more easily do so. If you think about it, Ben is the one that wants to keep the Island secret at any cost. Staging the fake crash keeps people from accidentally stumbling upon the Island. Widmore, on the other hand, seems to want to use the Island for monetary gain. While it’s always possible that he needs to keep it secret for this gain (especially if he’s going to attain this gain through illegal means, like jumping around in time to gamble), it seems like it would be easier for him to find the Island, rescue the people, and claim the land as his own – rather than going through all the trouble to keep it secret. If Widmore’s intentions are to turn the Island into a cancer-curing ultra-exclusive spa, it’s even more of a no brainer – make the Island known and rescue the people. It’s called free advertising, people!

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The Captain seems like a pretty ruthless guy, and maybe we shouldn’t trust him about a lot of things – but this might have been a nugget of truth buried in a nugget pile of lies.


Okay – that’s all for now. If I missed anything, let me know in the Comments and I’ll do my best to address.

http://facethewoods.com/lost/index.php?topic=282.0

54 comments:

phishpac said...

cool! first comment! Another great analysis. Thanks for staying at it, even during these ultra busy times. I got married and moved last summer.. so I can identify. Best of Luck!

Jon said...

One thing is bugging me: we know that the freightors knows about who was on Oceanic. They knew about Kate's past for instance. So why wouldn't they have identified "Kevin" (Michael) as a survivor in disguise?

No matter how I twist or turn the issue I can't imagine any other credible storyline except that the freightors know exactly who Michael is and are just feigning clueless.

jon said...

BTW, the Lost writers must really like your blog since they synced the break with your wedding! ;-)

Or is it the other way around?!??Despite how much I love to read this blog I'm hoping it aint so. 'Cause that's right where I'd draw the line between healthy and malignant tv show obsession. :-)

Drudo said...

Okay, I'm not the first post, but for now, I disagree with you Brian. I'm the ultimate conspiracy theorist. Not only do I think Jin is alive... I don't think his part was a flash back. I think it was written cleverly enough to look like a flash back, but I thing Jin is alive and living a new life married to someone else while Sun believes him to be dead. I don't have enough info to fill in the details or the hows, but I know I read a post on the net from a Korean viewer that the currency Jin used to buy the Panda was a new currency released post crash. Maybe he's jerking my chain, but if not, the producers are too detail oriented to let that slide. Also, I'm in the camp for Michael not being Ben's "Man on the boat". I think it may be the captain which would explain Michael giving them a note to not trust the captain. Maybe I'm way too far fetched, but that's where I stand for now.

Dave said...

@drudo: I'm not convinced by the "Jin is remarried" theory; primarily because it would require that Sun thinks he is dead (or else she wouldn't have bothered getting a tombstone). Also he still works for PAIK, and I'm pretty sure Sun would catch on to that.

As for the Michael is not the spy idea: I like it. There is nothing (so far) that actually suggests he is the mole, except he's someone we've seen before. Maybe the doctor is the mole...

gg said...

dave,
We have seen evidence that Michael is the mole. Why else would Ben tell Locke he should sit down before he tell him who "his man on the boat" is. It should be someone Locke knows or knows of. The doctor doesn't fit that criteria.

rob said...

re: Jin's death/not death -- I have a feeling that question will be resolved this week. They tell us someone will die. My top candidate is Jin.

re: Aaron and the Oceanic 6 -- he has to be part of it. I go into it on dailylost.com, but basically the name "oceanic six" came from the press/rescuers who reported they had 6 people. Aaron would be counted. It's from their perspective, not ours. So Aaron must be one of the six.

Drudo said...

I thought of the fact that Jin works for Paik automotive, but we've seen before that Sun's father is evil in his own right. He has no love for Jin and never thought he was good enough for Sun. Is it beyond him to hid Jin being alive from her. Maybe Jin believes she is dead too. I won't say I'm certain, but I'd rather believe my bizarre theory than the fact that the producers would pull a blatant stunt like that to no good purpose other than to mislead and confuse. It's just not like them.

tk said...

A point about the 8 survivors of the crash vs the 6 who make it off the island... I had the thought recently that they probably have to say that Claire survived the crash long enough to give birth to Aaron, unless they're finding some way to pass him off as someone else's baby.

Also, the "Jin is remarried" theory would have to occur in...what 2012? AKA the next year of the Dragon. The fact that he's still working for Sun's father and his huge, clunky cell phone seems to totally contradict that. (Jack's cell phone was a big clue in the last season finale.)

Anonymous said...

I'm probably wrong...
But the biggest evidence for Jin being alive is the ring, and the big deal she made out of it.
If you haven't lost a parent, had a friend lose a spouse, you may not know what it means to still be wearing that ring. The oath is 'till death do us part'.. but the debates over the wring? Sure, keeping the ring could be a sign of denial of death, and this was obviously within 7 months of the event, so it's entirely possible.
Take away her rants... her wearing her ring at all is a hint that he's still alive, and the date of death coupled with this is a strong case for him being alive on island. People speak at gravesites, etc as a symbolic gesture. Any monument could do. Most people who follow any of the major religions would believe his soul is not with the body. It's part of how we cope. So for her, talking to the stone is the best way for her to talk to her alive husband.

In the case for him being dead, I find it hard to believe that Hurley would come just to visit if he wasn't dead. I expected some sort of ceremony when he asked if other were coming.

One thing I've found with lost is not to did too deep, and I fear I may be doing this. It was suggested by some that the death of Sun's other lover may have been her pushing him off the balcony to keep Jin from knowing, and he grabbed her necklace as he fell. When mentioned to the shows producers, they seemed stunned "how did someone get that".

Still, they never said he was Dead.

But the strongest evidence for him being dead may be the long running spoilers from as far back as January listing Jin as one of the Oceanic 6. But the problem with this is the date 9/22! He would obviously be rescued in December. A recently decomposed body would be obvious.. so how coul dhe be?
Is there really a body burried in that grave?
If he's dead or alive, either way, it's a sacrifice to save Sun and the Baby. I still think that if he were dead they would have said SOMETHING to indicate this.

Steve said...

First, concerning Bens wealth. He's getting it from somewhere, if not Widemore, who's financing him?
Hanso foundation? Hanso vs Widmore?

Concerning the Sickeness. I agree on this, but the only thing that holds me back was "the lost experience" and the disease/cure for the 'numbers' issue. But how much of that is Canon? What the freighters are going through sure seems like what we actually know of the disease. Maybe coming by plane prevented the people from getting it? Is this what the 'numbers' serum was for?

Oh, and Brian, welcome to marriage and home ownership! I know where we're coming from. Wait until you have kids.. and/or sell that house! It's amazing that I still find time to keep up with lost at all.

Anonymous said...

Wedding rings and death from "wikipedia"

"Although in law, and in most religions, a marriage ends on first death, conventions (and perceived symbolism) around the wearing of wedding rings after a partner's death vary considerably. Traditions include the surviving spouse continuing to wear their own wedding ring after their partner's death, but on the ring finger of the other hand; removing their wedding ring at their partner's funeral; and taking charge of, and wearing, their dead partner's ring. In many cultures, the length of time and way in which a surviving spouse wears their ring is not dictated by a common custom, but varies by family tradition and choice of the surviving spouse. Sometimes the spouse adds the ring of the dead partner to theirs (and wears two rings on the same finger)."


What do I make of this? My fist thought is what hand is she wearing the ring on, I think it may be the right hand(if I remember correctly). As stated, all this varies with cultures and personal preference. I just don't think that the writers would have brought attention to ring if there wasn't some sort of significance.
Someone can also go through and see if she's wearing it at the grave.

I have two kids, and I don't recall anyone asking my wife to remove her ring during labor. Swelling/retention of water happens durin the pregnancy, I don't think it gets any worst during delivery, and what's the big deal?

Any mothers out there want to comment? Did you remover your wedding ring during labor? I Can't find anything about this on google searches. (Ironically, the searches pulled up discussions about Sun and Lost)

Stop me if I'm going overboard on such a minute details

Anonymous said...

No way they kill Michael off that quickly. They would have signed him as a guest star rather than a regular if he were in just 2 episodes.

Jin being remarried makes no sense.
There is a tombstone, working for Paik, and the cell phon. Definately a flashback.

However, I think Jin being the character that dies next week makes a lot of sense. Jin, Clair, or some minor character, like the girl who killed herself on the boat. Technically, we've had 2 deaths over the past few week already!

CJ said...

If one does not remove a wedding ring BEFORE delivery and there is an issue of swelling, it is likely that the ring will not come off at that point, until the swelling has a chance to go down again. So, yeah, I think it's unlikely to have the ring removed at the hospital. Swelling happens long before the baby is born. . .

Leonel said...

About the warp thing, be sure to read this interesting theory:

http://mirrormattermoon.blogspot.com/

(warning: as crazy as crazy theories go, but it does make a bunch of sense and may be considered spoilerish)

The main point for the warp is that the island is moving. Remember when Sayid got in the freighter and asked "where are we?". He didn't get a straight answer, instead getting "Our last port was in Bali" (or something).

Anonymous said...

If you were going to stage a plane crash to keep unsuspecting people away from a specific spot, why would you stage it near that spot? Especially when the plane was way off course anyway?

Also, did the captain have the real black box from 815?

Anonymous said...

To Drudo and other non-believers: This might be a spoiler but if you check the abc website's previews for this week... it confirms that Michael IS Ben's man on the boat (Ben says it...)

Anonymous said...

I believe that Jin could definitely be alive. The grave stone means nothing. We all know they all have to lie about the people left at the island. So why wouldnt a Women have a tombstone for her deceased husband. It would look more obvious if she didnt have the tombstone.Plus the fact that the date of the death on the tombstone was when the crash occurred. Well we know for a fact that that is definitely not true. So I think the grave stone is just another cover up to keep the rest of the people on the island a secret. What I dont get is why Hurley came to Sun on that particular day. What is behind that. There are just too many unanswered questions to assume Jin is dead.

Eric said...

to anonymous (11:21 am): Does Ben actually say Michael is his mole? I recall that he says something like, What wouldn't a man do for his son? That certainly implies that Michael is his man, but it could also mean that we are being set up to believe that Michael is the mole but will be surprised when it is someone completely unexpected! Then again, I may be mis-remembering ...

Melissa said...

The whole ring during labor did take me out of the episode a bit. Neither time during the births of my children did I get asked to remove my rings.

But, I usually had to stop wearing them about half way through the pregnancy due to the bloating and weight and water gain anyway. everything bloats when you're pregnant. :)

Still, although I agree that Jin is probably dead, dieing during some heroic moment saving his wife and unborn daughter, I sooooo want him to be alive on the Island, having given up his seat on the helicopter for Sun so she and the baby could live, waiting for the day when they can return to him.

I am tired of losing people I care about on this show. I want the last episode to be happy. Back on Island and Happy.

Is that too much to ask?

Oh, I will keep watching even if I don't get my unrealistic happy ending, because the writing and storytellng are so brilliant, but i can dream.

Jennifer said...

Is it possible that the day Sun and Hurley went to visit Jin's "grave" was the one-year anniversary of the crash? To me, that would further support the theory that Jin is not dead. The outside world would expect Sun to visit her husband's grave on the anniversary of his death, so that's why she went, and it would also make sense that Hurley, as her fellow survivor, would want to accompany her. But of course we know he didn't really die on 9/22/04. And, maybe that's why Hurley said "good" when Sun said no one else was coming. If other people were coming with them (i.e., family members), they'd have to put on more of an act.

I'm convinced that Jin is not dead. But I can see the other side of this argument, too.

And, I'm sticking firmly with the belief that Aaron is one of the Oceanic 6. I *cannot* see the other side of that argument!

Anonymous said...

"I disagree with you Brian. I'm the ultimate conspiracy theorist. Not only do I think Jin is alive... I don't think his part was a flash back......" Drudo.

I'm sorry Drudo but clearly Jin's flashes were in the past. The store owner tells him it's the year of the Dragon which makes it either 1988 or 2000.

Whats strange is how the dynamic between Sayid and Ben changes so that Sayid goes around killing people for him e.g. the golfer. The Ben vs Widmore must be the central part of the entire story

Anonymous said...

Exactly, Swelling occurs well before the baby is born. And having the ring stuck on your finger until swelling goes down isn't THAT big of a deal. My mother got bigger after the birth of her fourth child and went 3 years with a ring stuck on her finger before she had it removed.
To this day, I'm paranoid about rings because of it.

But my wife DID wear her ring during delivery. Again, there was no reason to mention the ring unless there was a reason. We could have gone through the entire delivery.

The only other thing I can think of is that with the question about their relationship after learning about the adultry.... it could be just to show that they're still married.. but again. No need to mention the ring unless there was some point to it.

Anonymous said...

If Jin died on 9/22, then how did Sun get pregnant?

Rebecca said...

Jon- them not recognizing Michael doesn't bother me. There were 320ish people on the plane. Would you expect them to look up and remember every single face? Michael wasn't anybody special, Kate, however was a fugitive from justice with a long rap sheet. A profile like that is going to make your face very recognizable.

Rebecca said...

I'm so with you on this Brian. Jin is dead, it's sad but it is what it is. I thought the writers were brilliant with the flash forward/backward combo. There were clues that I didn't notice that others caught onto earlier that it was a flashback - he looked younger, working for Paik, was in China and his cell phone was an older model. One debate I've heard is the fact Sun was still wearing her ring so she must still think he's alive - sorry but hell yes she'd want to keep that on with him being dead. The baby wasn't that old so his death was recent - probably on their way off the island - and with everything their marriage had gone through on island she still very much loves him. I don't know many women who would just stop wearing their ring. And I personally would have slapped the nurse for trying to take it off my finger.

That said Michael has to be the man on the boat, no one else makes sense for how dramatic Ben made it seem last week. I like your time warp idea, esp the Super Mario Bros reference. He had to have gotten on the freighter after making it back to the 'real world'.

Thanks for still posting with all that you have going on. Congratulations on this exciting time & hope all plans are going smoothly.

P.S. If you were to name your first born after one of the LOST characters who would it be? I'm not suggesting you would go that far but just curious. :)

Rebecca said...

Regarding rings during pregnancy/delivery - I wore my wedding ring throughout both pregnancies & deliveries, not once did they ask me to take them off. I thought it was very strange when the nurse wanted her ring off & thought she was trying to steal it from her or something. :shrug:

Someone mentioned they could have been visiting the cemetery on the 1 year anniversary - that doesn't make sense with how young the baby is. Does that play into the timeline? Either way I still think Jin is dead.

tkap91 said...

I'm pretty much sold on the fact that Michael is Ben's man on the boat, but there are still a couple options. People like the captain, who Locke has never met before, are obviously out. However, there are still two possibilities, one of whom i've mentioned previously. Mikhail, aka Patchy, is one of those options. Locke would have remembered him from the communication station, and also from Desmond, who obviously would have retold the story of the underwater station. Mikhail survived a shocker fence and a harpoon to the middle of his chest (lung and/or heart damage), so how damaging could an underwater grenade blast be? My more convincing theory if Ben's man isn't Michael, however, is such a possibility to me that I won't even argue it (that's up to you to ponder): Jacob.

J. said...

Unless they are going to do something tricky or we'll be getting some Freighter flashbacks, killing off Zoe Bell's character (the chick who jumped off the boat) was a huge waste of talent. Rather pointless actually, could of been a freaking extra for all the screen time she got. She is quite an awesome stunt person and a very bubbly/upbeat personality. Maybe there will be a flashback and we can see the degeneration occur. but yeah, her death was annoying.

Chris Bobb said...

I'm going to ask again...if everyone outside the island thinks everyone from 815 is dead (all the bodies found with the crash) then when does it become okay for there to suddenly be 6 survivors??

Kamama said...

Am newbie so forgive if this has been said before. Could there be 2Jins? 2 Hurleys? 2 - well, you know! Wasn't there a question Ben asked about what number a rabbit was? Wasn't there a comment another time about 2 rabbits having same #? Sorry, don't have a lot of tech so can't go back to view episodes or freeze frames/dialogue, etc.
But am thinking if Lost writers are doing time warps they also could be doing can the quantum thingy so that in 1 time frame Jin dies such-and-such a date & in another he dies a different date?
BTW, Congrats, Brian. And to all, I enjoy reading your posts!

Anonymous said...

Regarding Sun's ring - I thought they were getting ready to prep her for surgery. Didn't the doctor say he thought they were going to have to 'take' the baby? In that case, they would have the patient remove all rings. I think it was just a way of letting the audience know that she and Jin remained together.

Hope said...

Someone mentioned they could have been visiting the cemetery on the 1 year anniversary - that doesn't make sense with how young the baby is. Does that play into the timeline? Either way I still think Jin is dead.
rebecca,

I don't know if I think they were visiting the cemetary for the one year anniversay but the timing could work. The baby was conceived soon after the crash, so if they visited for the one year anniversary she would have only been about two months old.

Lisa said...

I noticed that there's writing on Sun and Jin's tombstone next to Sun's birth date, about in the place where the date of her death will go. Does anyone know why that is there or what it says?

kelly said...

One thing that I keep coming back to in my mind... the wreckage of 815 was staged and every single body accounted for, right? Well then, what does the media make of the Oceanic 6? Do they figure there were 6 (or 8) stowaways on board the flight? Wouldn't the media be alerted by this discrepancy?

Either someone is lying about how the wreckage was staged or O6's story would have to be pretty complicated.

Thoughts?

kelly said...

Sorry Chris, just read your comment after posting mine. I did see you post that before. Definitely weird. I think someone is lying about how it was staged. Did Ben say it or was it just Naomi and the captain?

Craig said...

Brian said:
"Who are the Oceanic Six? I refuse to believe that Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Sun, and Aaron are the Oceanic Six. Instead, I’m going with the “ABC Promo Lied to Us” excuse – since the only reason we’re making this assumption is that the preview for “Ji Yeon” promised the last of the Oceanic Six would be revealed."

Im wondering if it has been suggested anywhere that the last of the 6 was actually 'revealed' simply by being in the episode, and rather than the obviousness of being Sun, is actually - Michael?!
(Im not counting Aaron too).

What if he is, like Sayid, one of Ben's 'soldiers'? Maybe Michael lost Walt again (imagine another "Walt! Waaaaalt!" scene :-)) - either by another double-cross by Ben, or Widmore's cronies got him, and has to work for Ben to get back Walt back or fight Widmore to find him?

Would explain why he is working for Ben, and sort out your worries Brian no?

It would set up a nice run of Michael flash-forwards as one of the O-6 and how he deals with his guilty conscience as well Walts eventual outcome.

Anonymous said...

As a labor and delivery nurse .. yes it is customary to remove all metal from patients if a cesarean section is even remotely suspected by the doctor. When we bolus iv fluids in for an epidural to help with the pain there can be alot of swelling during delivery so if it looks like the rings are tight we try to get them off. There is nothing worse then seeing a finger turn blue and having to get bolt cutters from the er to get it off.

Anonymous said...

But still, to draw attention to the fact that she's still wearing her ring. That means something.

Anonymous said...

You can't tell me that someone hasn't translated the text from the tombstone yet!

Anonymous said...

If Michael is considered one of the O6, then they will have to cover up the freightor too - not out of the realm of possibility.

Oh what a tangled web we weave...

Anonymous said...

To me it's so clear that Michael is No. 6. He becomes the man in the coffin and the reason Jack is so upset is because he knows Michael was the only one who could steer a ship back to the island. This sets up a quest for Jack, Kate (she'll decide she loves Sawyer, or needs to rescue Claire for Aaron, or obtain vaccine for some as yet unknown affects of island vs real word on Aaron), Hurley (Charlie has already told him he needs to return), Sun (Ji might still be alive on the island)to return to the island. I predict Season 5 will be all about them trying to get back (a la Lord of The Rings), and Season 6 the resolution on the island.

Hope said...

Here is a link to Lostoedia and the tombstone.

http://bp2.blogger.com/_n3eH1jI8AZ8/R9soQRhseMI/AAAAAAAACzo/Yt0AvfFtl0w/s1600-h/jinstombstone-1.jpg

foxburr said...

I think Jin is dead. The emotion that Sun showed at the grave seemed to be purely grief. As we have seen from Jack, Sayid, and Hurley when they think about those left on the island there are huge amounts of guilt involved. If Jin was still alive on the island, then I think the emotions protrayed (by both Sun and Hurley) would have been more mixed.

Darren Barrett said...

The book that Reggina was reading that was upside down is called "The Survivors Chancellor" - It is a Diary of J. R. Kazallon, about the final voyage of a British sailing vessel, the Chancellor, told from the perspective of one of its passengers.

At the beginning of its voyage, the Chancellor carried eight passengers and twenty crew members. By the end, only eleven people (five passengers and six crew) remained alive. The Chancellor had been at sea 72 days before sinking!!

(WIKI LINK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Survivors_of_the_Chancellor)

Darren Barrett said...

apologies... the link is...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
The_Survivors_of_the_Chancellor

Casi said...

I heard a theory about Walt, Michael, and Ben... sorry if something like this has already been said

Okay, you know how ben has all of this money? I think to get Michael to do this was to promise him money in return. Maybe like a "pit-stop" on the way home? It's definitely not originally for the survivors, because how would he know they would end up on the freighter too? I think now that he knows they are there, he's helping them out a bit. Hence warning them about the captain (He must have done something to Michael to make him feel this way about him) and opening the door.

Another thought. I think the freighters are holding walt captive somewhere within the boat.. you remember the banging of the pipes? That might have been walt... oooooor he's just on the island.

questions questions questions.

Becky said...

What was that secret midnight mission Lapidus, a self-proclaimed castaway ally, went on?

S said...

I don't know if people have commented on this already, but I thought there were strong hints at a Schrödinger's cat type scenario in 'Ji Yeon'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrödinger's_cat. Thoughts?

Anonymous said...

S, the live cat/dead cat theory appeals to me also, tho Brian might say am in denial! If Lost can warp folks from the Island to New York or wherever, why can't Lost play with time, too, and have Jin still alive in one timeline but dead in another? The other day I said,Am newbie so forgive if this has been said before. Could there be 2Jins? 2 Hurleys? 2 - well, you know! Wasn't there a question Ben asked about what number a rabbit was? Wasn't there a comment another time about 2 rabbits having same #? Sorry, don't have a lot of tech so can't go back to view episodes or freeze frames/dialogue, etc.
But am thinking if Lost writers are doing time warps they also could be doing can the quantum thingy so that in 1 time frame Jin dies such-and-such a date & in another he dies a different date?
BTW, Congrats, Brian. And to all, I enjoy reading your posts!

Kamama94 said...

Sorry about posting asa anonymous, am not tech-savvy and can't get the hang of this!

Matt Payne said...

I think Brian is wrong and Jin is still alive ;)

Kamama94 said...

So when do we supposedly "find out" if Jin really is dead or not? I mean, didn't we "see" everybody else dies, i.e., Naomi, Anna Lucia, etc.

Anonymous said...

In the "flashback" of Jin, you will notice he is speaking perfect English. Before he got to the Island, he could not speak ANY English at all... so him not being dead is indeed plausible. Unless the writers messed that one up, which I hardly think is the case.