Wednesday, May 24, 2006

"Live Together, Die Alone" Chatter

It's too late tonight to begin comprehending what I just saw - but feel free to start fresh with the comments here.

Some initial thoughts to get your brains working:

  1. Crazy huge bird. The first bird we've seen on the Island (which many have noted is pretty odd), and it's some prehistoric looking beast. Odd.
  2. Giant stone foot with only four toes. Is this Atlantis? Does such a statue indicate that this place has been here for centuries (since building giant stone statues of people went out of fashion sometime around ancient Rome).
  3. Is the Hatch destroyed? If so, the Blast Door is gone forever...
  4. Desmond dead? Maybe. It was a fitting death.
  5. Locke and Eko dead? No way. Too many unanswered storylines. Plus, with Jack, Kate, and Sawyer gone - what leaders do we have to try and rescue them? Sayid and Jin? No - they'll need Eko and Locke.
  6. I'm not sure how I feel about the shift from everything taking place on the Island to seeing things happening in the real world - it takes some of the mystery away from it all. I'm curious to see how they handle this next season. But my gut instinct now seems to tell me that the show is going to end with our Survivors (at least some of them) actually being rescued - something I never thought possible before tonight.
  7. How did Penny know to search for an Electromagnetic Pulse? We'll have to work through that.
  8. So we really just need to find a link between Kate, Jack, and Sawyer. Thoughts?
  9. If anything, I think this episode strengthened my theory that there are Rebel Dharmites and Corporate Dharmites. Maybe they're not clones or test subjects, but if HGI refers to them as "the good ones" there must be "bad ones" somewhere!
  10. New Dharma Website: http://www.hansocareers.com - I hunted around and nothing jumped out at me initially. But rest assured I'm going to be sending in my resume for a few of those jobs and see what happens...

Full post soon!

174 comments:

tmlacy said...

WOW... I need to watch that again...

Chris Bobb said...

THAT was supposed to tie up lose ends?? HA

I think maybe a half of one question may have been answered. And about 10 more came about. And the foot?! What?!!

rob said...

Whoa! Now what?!?!? Too many new questions!

Ben said...

WTF FOOT STATUE FOUR TOES AHHHHHHH!

Mmmmmkay...
-I'm glad the plane crash/timer theory came true; it seemed like the only plausible explanation for what was going to happen. Clearly we could see Locke AND Eko starting to act irrationally, but considering the show revealed the canisters leading to nowhere, we could definitely see where that story was headed

-What did "System Termination" mean? Did the hatch blow up? Did the magnet reverse polarity? (thereby causing the Quarantine Sign to shoot upward towards their camp) I'd hate to see Eko/Locke/Desmond actually get killed off, and because Desmond/Penny seems like a crucial storyline I highly doubt they're all dead. Most likely the magnet just shutdown...somehow. Or maybe it's building up even more for a cataclysmic showdown in Season 3!

-Rebel Dharmites? Ehhhh... the only possible way this theory could get more credibility would be HGI's "We're the good ones" comment. Although, I think the Rebel Dharmites are EVERYONE science-related on the Island (Kelvin's "Hostiles"), and the "bad guys" are the Dharma higher-ups, like Wickman/Candle, Hanso, Widmore, etc. The problem with this theory is the Claire-killing-baby-extractors surely don't seem like your friendly neighborhood Rebel Dharmites, so I don't know.

All in all, this was a superb episode, but waiting until the fall will be unbearable!

Anonymous said...

Desmond is more important than ever. I hope he is okay and will become a series regular! Penny is looking for him and she is the one who will eventually rescue everyone . The island is magnetically cloaked --Henry pretty much confirmed it.

Anonymous said...

"every single day" is what desmond said when asked if he thought the button might be a trick...but he knew it did something after his near miss.......

Anonymous said...

One quick thought that I just put together. Libby said her husband's name was David. Hurley's imaginary friend's name was Dave. Could they be the same person?

phishpac said...

FANTASTIC EPISODE. I eagerly await your breakdown brian.

Trixie said...

Whaaaaaaa?

Darcy said...

I thought the guy who called Penny looked like Leanord, am I crazy?

The guy in the "listening station" who called Penny when they got the signal, looked like Leanord but at a younger age. Leanord is the crazy guy from the mental hospital who kept repeating the numbers that Hurley used for the lottery.

Stef said...

I'm a new reader but fellow LOST fanatic. Tonight's episode was amazing! I'll be checking back in to see what everyone thinks when we've had a night or two to sleep on it. :-)

Jared said...

Dude, What the heck happened to Sayid? I hope he's ok.

Mike said...

I had somewhat anticipated Henry being the leader due to the "wizard of oz" connections people had been talking about for a few months.

Now we know what happens when the button is not pushed... we know what caused the plane crash... we know that the Michael/Walt story is resolved and if we ever see Michael again, it probably will not be until near the end of the series in a few years.

So what the exact purpose of HGI's scouting mission? He did not interact with Kate, Sawyer or Hurley, so it was not to determine who the "good people" of the group were. I think it is obvious that during the lockdown he sent a message to the rest of the others to get him out. But getting caught by Russeau and getting an arrow in the shoulder... having a fake identity that was uncovered so easily... telling John the button was a joke when it really was important. Seems a bit contradictory, but we've got Season 3 to figure that crap out.

I hope Desmond survived and is part of the regular cast next season. Maybe we'll also find out why the specific route Michael was given is the only way off the island. I can't say I want summer to be over, but I'm really looking forward to September. :-)

Cactus Joe said...

actually, we have seen the giant bird before, i don't remember what episode but i think it was season 1 or early season 2.

as for the quarantine door, a polarity reversal makes sense. i am trying to remember college physics on the flow of magnetic fields, don't like poles repel? i dunno, too dumb to follow that thread in my own mind.

Cactus Joe said...

actually, we have seen the giant bird before, i don't remember what episode but i think it was season 1 or early season 2.

as for the quarantine door, a polarity reversal makes sense. i am trying to remember college physics on the flow of magnetic fields, don't like poles repel? i dunno, too dumb to follow that thread in my own mind.

Brian Leonard said...

What about the bird saying Hurley's name...and the voices? I'm beginning to think the island is an experiment set up by Hogwarts seniors!

I guess the Season 2 DVDs won't be out till the fall, right?

Great1 said...

Couple of quic thoughts:
Someone said it already, but i was definitely thinking that Libby's husband and Hurley imaginary friend was the same person.

That's Libby's boat! ANd is that her before or after the mental hospital! Her real name is ELizabeth?

Kelvin was the guy from sayid's flashback, and i like how both Desmond and Kelvin were both military rejects...hmmmm....

Kelvin was drawing the blast door map!! him and his partner before that!

There is either only one way to get out of the field surrounding the island, going in the exact direction that HGI told Michael to go, or Michael is gonna get killed or trapped.

Sawyer picked up the map? interesting...

Did anyone see what was behind the Dharma doors in the village? the one sayid opened?

Where the hell is smokey!!!!
Sayid again, is the survivors last hope, hes gonna be the one to save the day, along with his sidekick, Jin.

Im waiting for your break down Brian!!

Anonymous said...

Holly Wakamole! That was just freaking amazing. More questions, very few answers! The statue with the four toes has a name, Ill search for it, my friend told me about it...

A.J, CR

DCrowley said...

As for the "Hanso Careers" website, two or three letters in each job description are grey instead of black: (n s), (l u t), (m I e), (m A), and (y a). They don't seem to be in any order, and running them through an anagram-finder returns too many results to be easily checked. Anyone have a quicker idea?

Ben said...

Is this Matthew Fox as the guy calling Penny Widmore? Am I hallucinating here?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v700/twane217/Jack_001.jpg

cjhadley82 said...

I wonder with libby's husband passing away is this what led to her being in the mental hospital with hurley?

w2m said...

Did anyone see what was behind the Dharma doors in the village? the one sayid opened?

It appeared to be a dead end.

Desmond told Penny that he was running to get his integrity back (something along those lines). I also think Penny contacted Libby (who trained at the asylum Hurley was in - for Dharma) and ordered her to give the boat to Desmond. I think Desmond redeemed himself by "saving the lives of the rest" by turning the key. When that alarm went off, those two men informed Penny.
Don't know what it all means though - I have no clue! I can't read as much into these episodes as everyone else!

Could that statue be what shook the island in Season 1? No one saw it, but it was supposedly huge! And killed! But that would just be too freaky.

Jules said...

The greyed out letters from the careers website (when the words are highlighted) unscramble to spell inmate asylum or asylum inmate. Not quite sure the significance of that phrase yet aside from the Hurly/ Libby story.

Also, I have to wonder if Penny's Dad is somehow involved in Hanso/ Dharma and Penny knows he may be hiding Desmond somewhere in this electromagnetic experiment. Hence she had someone looking for an electromagnetic anomaly. The last words spoken by the guys who called Penny were "I think we found it".

This show rocks... can't wait to see it next season!

Andrew Dill said...

The Widmore Corporation has been revealed in the Lost Experience as a partner company of the Hanso Foundation. So it would seem that Penny would know what's going on. We still don't know how she knew Desmond was on the island, but maybe her dad set up the race so Desmond would crash there.

w2m said...

Another point -
I don't think Michael and Walt will be back on the island - I don't think the compass is going to work - they are going to get 'lost' again.

Anonymous said...

Another point -
I don't think Michael and Walt will be back on the island - I don't think the compass is going to work - they are going to get 'lost' again.

OOPS SHOULD SAY THEY WILL BE BACK

Anonymous said...

I think that last scene with the Russians permanently debunks the Purgatory theory...

Tread said...

Actually, I'm happy that the electromagnetic observation station "discovery" debunks the Purgatory theory. IMO, it gives the characters more hope.

I don't think Michael is finished with the island yet, either.

Anonymous said...

great 1, Libby is a common nickname for Elizabeth.

The fact that the Widmore Corp is tracking island activities from far away from the island (snowy landscape etc.) proves that the island is not purgatory, I think. It probably also debunks the "humanity extinct" theory.

-Bentonian

Anonymous said...

penelope = persiphone?

Mike said...

It is not purgatory. The books in the show (and the book based on the show, as far as I can tell) are "anti-clues" - Occurance at Owl Creek Bridge being there means it is not a dream. Third Policeman being there means the characters are not already dead.

Seeing an off-island even that was not a flashback seemed very strange to me. Between this and the horrible hanso promotions they are doing (websites = cool, jimmy kimmel = ugh) I hope they are not dramatically shifting the focus of the show.

Despite how weird that final scene was, I'm happy that much of this seems to confirm what I was guessing at:

01. The experiments WERE nonsense (Candle w/ arm) but at least the Swan Hatch became something genuinely dangerous (Candle w/out arm)

02. The others use a lot of theatrics and misdirection. They expected Michael would somehow fail to completely convince the folks on the list, and planned accordingly. Sayid saw one big prop display.

03. If it isn't magnetism itself that brought the plane down, it is at least forcing vessels to be attracted to the island. Desmond sailed away for two weeks and ended up right where he started.

04. We don't know what the "incident" was that caused the swan hatch to become a real threat, but it is easy to see how Marvin Candle could have lost a limb when it happened.

05. Murder by or at the behest of the others only happens when some people get very desperate. Ethan was desperate to get Claire back. Michael was not even ordered to kill, but did so because he was incredibly desperate to get Walt back. Goodwin probably would not have had to kill anyone if Bernard hadn't seen him out the jungle, leading Ana to correctly suspect him of already having been on the island.

06. They're definately the same people that kidnapped Claire and were willing to kill her and "extract" Aaron, but did not harm Walt at all. Maybe they don't see "enemies" in the beach boys so much as they saw "obstacles" and perhaps now potential allies.

07. Mr. Friendly isn't Gerald DeGroot, unless reffering to him as "Tom" was yet another fake out.

I'm glad the mystery of the hatch is more or less resolved, but they are going to need clever writing to keep all of this others-dharma-hanso-widmore stuff coherent going into next season. Fortunately, I think they are up to the task.

pdiddy said...

Damn it, I wish I wasn't so busy at work today to post some theories, I actualy had some right! I thought we would meet Kelvin and find out we knew him. I also thought a couple of characters would die. I like that repulsion theory for the door, but maybe we are over analyzing it. Maybe the hatch really just blew up. Or maybe we are so smart we saw through this ruse. I actually don't like that we saw something present in the "real world." It definately takes away from the whole story line. This was so crazy I can't wrap my brain around it. Brian, when are you doing your update?

Also, bstevens from Montana, did you go to UD and are you from Lakewood? If so, nice to see you Becca. If not, happy Lost theorizing.
Pat Gaughan

Amy said...

When Desmond asked Penny how he'd found her (the flashback when he was at the track) she told him that she has a lot of money and that if you have enough money you can find anything. Interesting.

Amy said...

Oops, I mean Desmond asked Penny how SHE found HIM.

devon said...

i think as desmond was on his boat sailing away, back at the hatch when we saw the hieroglyphics the first time, he someone got turned around back toward the island.

Anonymous said...

A bit of relevant mythology for everyone....Penelope was the wife of Odysseus and was famous for her faithfulness to her husband. In mythology Odysseus is lost at sea for 10 years before he returns home where Penelope has not yet remarried. This is strangely similar to Desmond being lost at sea and Penelope clearly still waiting for him. Just something to think about.

hobbes said...

Ok how many of you have already watched that more than once?

Anonymous said...

the letters unscramble to "mental asylum"

is the nuthouse the link in all of this?

Anonymous said...

something messed up about that episode is that it took a while for desmond to remeber the disaster that happened when he didn't push the button,,
disapointing for such a good show.

melodrama said...

Ok I did a search for the statue with four toes and came up with this:

Thomas Love Peacock's Headlong Hall

"Here you see is the pedestal of a statue, with only half a leg and four toes remaining: there were many here once."

Not sure what it means, and can't find a summary on this book. Might be a coincidence, but I was hoping it would give us some insight on this weird statue thing.


Also, about the theory that the Island might be Atlantis... I don't think the statue gives the idea of this, because that statue looked pretty new. It was way too white, and should be much more worn and discolored if it was there for centuries.

melodrama said...

By the way, I think this episode was great! Esp when Desmond said "I think I crashed your plane!"

I don't think Desmond is dead. It would be pretty sad for Penny, since she's clearly looking for him. And I think the person above is right about the story of Odysseus, she is waiting for him -- and in the Odyssey, Odysseus returns home at the end, so Desmond would have to be alive.

Also, I think Penny's dad is involved with Hanso Foundation (maybe even one of the big guys!). He caused Desmond to get on the island to get him away from Penny. Penny found out what her dad is up to and is trying to find Desmond (so she is probably Persephone). Desmond caused the Survivors to crash on the Island, so does that make their crash on the Island coincidental?

It's strange that Desmond's buddy in the hatch wasn't interacting with the Others who were also Dharmites, if he is one of the original Dharmites that joined... was he an experiment subject? Or was he helping them test Desmond and whoever else was on the island?

Another weird thing: if the Others know how to get off the Island, why don't they? They're either lying to Michael, or they WANT to be on the Island for some reason.

Did anyone mention that Michael appears to be sick? It doesn't make sense for him to get the sickness but then just disappear and reach home to die. I think he'll come back to help save Jack, Sawyer, and Kate... he gave them a long look before he left, so it might make him feel guilty.

Anyway, besides the stuff that came up tonight (the bird, the statue, etc), I want some old questions to be answered!

1. The numbers
2. The smokey thing
3. The visions
4. What's going on b/w the Rebels and regular Dharmites
5. Why the survivors are all related to each other, if they only got stuck there b/c of Desmond
6. What the psychic and his daughter knew, and how

One last thing -- anyone think that the super-magnet activating in this episode will cause another group of people to crash on the island? If we have another 3 years to go, maybe... but I would rather have the purpose of the magnet be for them to get rescued -- and it would make Locke's statement true when he said, "I just saved everyone" when he let the magnet activate.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone read the "Bad Twin" book yet? I'm only about half way through, however, Widmore's are the main characters. Cliff Widmore's wife was named Shannon. His brother is missing - for 4 months now. Something about flight 815. I thought it was really interesting how they tied in the book last night by bringing in Widmore actors on the show.

eric said...

My guess is that Penelope and Persephone are the same person or are related. I was hoping that the boat would take them back to the "barracks."

If the fail-safe button just turns the magnet off or reverses it's polarity or something then why didn't Dharma just push it years ago? If it reverses the polarity the door wouldn't go flying unless it was magnetized as well. However I don't think Locke, Desmond and Eko are dead... Charlie would have (hopefully) noticed an explosion as he was probably just on his way out the door when the fail-safe was triggered.

Now that the computer is broken and/or the Swan destroyed how will the island's "unique magnetic properties" be delt with? If it was as easy as destroying the hatch they could have done that years ago - unless they had some reason to try to preserve the magnet. My impression was that the magnet was not a human-built part of the hatch but was somehow linked to aforementioned electromagnetic properties.

I need to watch this again...

W2M said...

Anyone else catch Jack as the one coming out of the car and running at the track (actually up and down the stadium stairs) while Penny and Desmond were talking?

macm said...

whoa....isn't the whole 'connected idea' blown out of the air now; with desmond's discovery of the log entry and him missing/being late entering the code at the same time the plane crashed. how could those events leading up to to that(kelvin leaving and desmond following)been predicted or presumed? and yes, kelvin is the same guy that trained sayid in interrogation methods.

also that bird WAS in season 1, they saw it when they were on their way to blow open the hatch.

Justin said...

Brian, here me out on this one:

I think that both Locke and Eko are dead, died in the explosion (or whatever that thing was). While it sounds bad, it makes sense given the storyline/theme of this season: the question of faith.

Locke, once on the island, believed that his purpose for being brought there was to serve the island. He put his total faith in the island and as a result, Boone died. Through that Locke was lead to the hatch and eventually the numbers computer. This became his newest purpose, given to him by the island. He then discovered that it was an experiment (or so he thought) and lost his faith in the island. Locke decided to have the biggest test of faith standoff possible, not entering the numbers.

Enter Eko. Eko was a priest, but a fake one and didn't really have faith. Through the investigation he lead he found his faith, and then ended up on the island. He was reunited with his brother and figured it was all thanks to God. So, he owed God a penance for bringing him to the island -- the question was what. At first it was being the island's priest. He baptized Claire's baby and started building a church -- not to mention the weird Bible stick he was making. Then he and Locke went on their treasure hunt and, while Locke lost his faith, Eko found his. His penance was to enter the number sequence into the computer every 108 minutes.

So you have one who used to believe but no longer believes and one who didn't believe who now believes. Bring it up to speed and their sitting tight, testing their faith -- or lack there of. While their waiting for the timer to hit zero, Desmond realizes something -- this hatch isn't the experiment after all. The Pearl hatch is. Locke doesn't believe it and, unfortunately for him, Jack and the group found the proof when they found all the canisters. As Desmond discovers, there was probably a bit of truth to the ramblings that Kelvin made about the buildup of electromagnetic activity and the number sequence was the release -- and this release probably brought down flight 815. Once the number sequence hit zero, and the final hieroglyphic showed up, it became pretty clear that something bad really was going to happen. When Desmond decided to "blow the dam" and Locke and Eko saw each other there were two things that I think prove that we wont see them come season three:

1. Locke said "I was wrong." He tested his faith in the island and the island responded by calling his bluff. Locke would truly have no other purpose on this island anymore. If he were to have survived the "incident" if you will, he would just be a shell of a person that would mumble in the background. You could argue that his new purpose would be to scour the island following the black light map to the other hatches -- to unlock all the mysteries of the island. But I think that ended for him when Jack and Co found the map amongst the pile of canisters. So, alas, Locke is dead.

2. Eko's cross was ripped from his neck by the electromagnet. Eko's faith was restored thanks to the island. That cross was the one he wore when he was a boy, then gave to his brother after the rebel's forced him to kill the man. Later in life, Eko took that cross from the dead body of his brother in the Beachcraft, in a symbol of his faith being restored. Since it got ripped off in the test of faith, it essentially makes Eko a marter to the island. He believed in the numbers, that God wanted him to continue entering them. If Eko were to survive, he would be the island's personal priest, but like I said, his loosing the cross is a pretty good sign to me that he's not coming back.

The destruction of the hatch, and killing off Locke and Eko, tie up most of the storylines from season two: faith and the hatch. While I don't think we've seen the end of the number sequence (it's still on the medicine that Claire has, among other things), I think it's safe to say they won't be entering it into a computer any time soon.

Jill said...

If you look at the job postings on HansoCareers, the words "The Hanso Foundation" are written in white font (and thus hidden) at the bottom of the job postings. Click on it and it takes you to http://www.thehansofoundation.org/index.html#section=bios

Hmmmmm

Anonymous said...

The bird is in the season 1 finale, timestamp around 42:50, in retrospect, it also sounds a lot like it says hurley that time as well.

See here for image:

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/6096/snapshot200605252329550kp.png

Goo said...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1419122991/104-9940486-6931935?st=%2A&v=glance&n=283155

Found this too, not sure if it relates (to the statue):

""The place is quite a wilderness," said Squire Headlong: "for, during the latter part of my father's life, while I was finishing my education, he troubled himself about nothing but the cellar, and suffered everything else to go to rack and ruin. A mere wilderness, as you see, even now in December; but in summer a complete nursery of briers, a forest of thistles, a plantation of nettles, without any livestock but goats, that have eaten up all the bark of the trees. Here you see is the pedestal of a statue, with only half a leg and four toes remaining: there were many here once."

nikki.tebo said...

It's been long speculated that Libby was an Others plant...

Could it be that she was a plant with Desmond as well? She "happened" to meet him in a coffee shop and offer him her dead husband's boat?

What if she is working for the Widmore corporation? Or the Hanso foundation?

She gives Desmond a rigged boat that will take him to the island, to make sure he stays away from Penny forever....

But the biggest question that left me hanging last night --- why Jack, Sawyer and Kate? And Hurley?

What is it about those four that makes the Others want them so badly?

Why give up Hurley?

Anonymous said...

2 things people:

1. Heres your info about the statue (the Colossus of Rhodes):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_of_Rhodes

2. On the closed captioning thing the bird said HURLEY, so no doubt about that weird thing saying his name.

A.J, CR

Ross said...

I haven't read the 49 comments up to this point so if these were mentioned I'm not trying to steal ideas from anyone. I was speculating on this myself. These might be completely wrong but concerning a few things:

1. Perhaps Pen's father works for Dharma or even is the lead in the project. It seems that enough time was spent on him to show he is at least a somewhat important character. I think the only concievable option for Penny knowing what to look for would have to be knowing something from her father. Perhaps the boat race was a specific ploy to get Desmond on the boat and finally within the confines of the island.

2. I agree with your idea that the "others" lead by HGI are "good" so to speak. I don't think they are evil nor have any bad intentions with their new captives. It's obvious that experimentation is meant to be done on whoever they take in. So far no one has gotten "hurt" by an other associated with HGI. The stun darts don't really count because that was merely to subdue them. I mean Micheal was told go bring 4 back but never instructed to hurt anyone. HGI had the opprotunity to kill Locke (who wasn't on the list) but didn't. I just honestly doubt that HGI's group is bad, despite what they portray them as.

3. I don't this Desmond is dead, although it would lead you to believe he is. Because to assume he is dead but not John and Eko would mean that the something differently happened below the computer room compared to above it where Locke was. In other words the epicenter of the blast (if it even was a blast) would have had to be the key slot. Also a normal explosion wouldn't send a hatch flying up that far and then back down. I think that by turning the key, the magnetic cycle was reversed and instead of metal being attracted within the hatch, it was quickly expelled which would repel metal from the hatch. Since the quarantine chunk was outside the hatch itself, in order to launch that like it did the explosion would have had to be massive and basically blow the whole thing to shreds. If that were the case, Locke and Eko would be dead too. This is why I think it dramatically reversed the magnetic pull and instead hurled any nearby metal outwards from the hatch. Plus I don't remember Desmond reading that book. I would think that when he really is going to die he'll have his last wish and read Charles Dickens :P

Just some random ideas I was piecing together :)

Ross said...

Oh and one final point. I think HGI picked Jack, Sawyer, and Kate because they were all looking for Michael together. I think Hurley was picked merely for the pscyhological task he has to perform (go back to the camp etc.) and was meant to through us off. If I remember correctly it was Jack, Sawyer, Kate, and Locke. So why wasn't Locke there if my theory holds true. That could be because he was already psychologically broken by the island due to the numbers, etc. Sawyer, Kate, and John all seem to still be pretty clear thinking (which could be dangerous to the others, if they are bad, and useful, if they are good).

Amy said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Ang said...

Anonymous.. I read the book Bad Twin. I enjoyed it. It was Cliff and Zander Widmore, was Gary Troup just using the last name for his characters in the book not the first names? When i starting trying to think about how the book and LOST come together or even if they do I start going batty.

I totally love the finale. I think Penny had a tracking device on Desmond's boat.


Ang

Philosophy Nerd said...

Anybody notice we have another philosopher on the island? We have had Rousseau and John Locke for a while now, but with the revelation of Desmond's full name we have -- David Hume. As Wikipedia points out, Hume's major contributions to philosophy were extreme skepticism (he famously doubted the existence of causation), naturalism and empiricism. At first I thought Rousseau and Locke were nods to the "state of nature" thought experiment that could perhaps be playing out on the island (though, interestingly, there is very little attention paid to what sort of social arrangements are evolving naturally as our survivors try to live without a state). Now I'm not so sure. Note Hume's principle interests on wikipedia:

-determinism
-empiricism
-naturalism

Ross said...

Last point :P

If the hatch is destroyed that means we've gotten everything out of that mysterious symbol that was on the wall that we could. I think there is more to that then just the pearl. So that's another reason I don't think the hatch is done with yet.

Anonymous said...

By saying her husband is named David, Libby confirms two things:

1. she is lying
2. she was watching Hurley very closely in the hospital

Ross said...

How is she lying about that? I must not have been paying close enough attention.

Eric said...

Some more thoughts...

The fact that Kelvin referred to the others as "hostiles" goes along with the rebel dharmites theory. Kelvin signed up with Dharma so he was probably told that the others were bad.

Why did Henry lie about pushing the button? Obviously he pushed it... Why would he say he didn't? If pushing it is so bad wouldn't he want the survivors to keep pushing it? The only thing I can think of is that he might have been messing with Locke. Apparently it worked too.

Isaac of Uhuru said that there are several places on the planet with electromagnetic properties. Were the Russians monitoring all of them or just one? Were they working for Widmore or for Penny?

I don't like the idea of real-time action moving off the island. It seems a bit contrived to me. The fact that this was done probably means that it is very important to the plot and I expect we'll see more off-Island action next season. Possibly we'll see into the Hanso/Widmore conspiracy?

Also - the Hanso RSS says that the Board of Director's bios are updated. You need a username and password to view them. However I noticed a little hidden link directly to the left and down from the bottom corner of the lower left corner of the content box. Clicking it seems to just move the background lights on the page around. Maybe it needs to be clicked 108 times or something annoying.

robin said...

so...is anyone else curious about why Charlie was acting so weird when he went back to the beach? He just wanders over nonchalantly and when asked about Lock and Eko he just says "oh, they're not back yet?" You would think he wouldn't be so light hearted about the situation...

Anonymous said...

yeah that whole ending pissed me off... what happened to locke and eko and why was charlie being all happy. I think he's got a bit of a dark side to him.

pdiddy said...

Some random theories...
-Obviously HGI is the leader of the "others" if we can still call them the others? This is why he says Zeke is "nothing, nobody."
-I don't know if Penelope is specifically looking for Desmond. They said we found "it", not "him". Maybe she was hoping Desmond would be at one of the Dharma things. She had inside info about Dharma and Hanso from her Father's company.
-It looks like the map wasn't made by rebel Dharmites, but by by-the-book Dharamites. Kelvin refers to them as the hostiles. They obviously don't play for the same team. Maybe the "hostiles/HGIs" really are just livin it up on the island. Maybe they are all Rose/Locke type people who have found peace and actually want to stay. But they are definately up to something. I can't get this stuff straight, just as I think of something, something new pops up.
-I think Locke and Eko are dead. I had a feeling someone(s) will be killed off. Plus, they said we would have more characters next season. Those will either be the hostiles, or Penelope in the real world. They needed to thin the cast a bit. Plus it does tie up season 2. But then it doesn't. Won't something bad happen in another 108 minutes now? But if the failsafe destroyed the problem, they could've/should've/would've activated the failsafe a long time ago.
Sorry for the rambling. Looks like it will be a nice long summer. Here's to hoping there aren't any spoilers! Also, please no one say "the actor to play so and so is leaving because his contract is up, or Locke isn't dead because he signed on to a 3rd season. That would ruin it.

Anonymous said...

Great episode! I will be one angry viewer if Eko and Locke die. I seriously doubt it....Desmond, too. Anyway, I have a question for anyone who will listen....Why was Locke not on the list? HGI told him that he was on his way to get him when he was snatched up in the net. Was he just lying to Locke? Also, why was HGI traveling alone if he is "the man in charge" as he appeared to be last night? Also...it's good to know that Zeke finally has a real name to go by...TOM.

Jackson said...

-The bird was nicknamed the "HurleyBird" after last season's finale. There are some who suspect it of being responsible for ripping the pilot out of the plane (since the body was dropped in the trees, and smokey seems to prefer pulling folks underground).

-I think the writers have long stated that the island's mystery is a lot older than the Dharma Initiative, and I think the stone ruin was definitely meant to confirm that. It probably would have pre-existed even the Black Rock.

-I'm going to take a guess and place the research station at the end on Antarctica, never mind that they were speaking Russian. It would be geographically closer to the island and also to a magnetic pole (since they were obviously looking for something magnetic).

-If Michael and Walt can be rescued by simply heading off WNW, then presumably so can the lostaways (on Dezzy's boat). But so far compasses have proven pretty useless, so those instructions may indeed by a ruse.

-I'm liking the reverse-polarity theory on the hatch door. Ferrous materials in a magnetic field will become magnetized themselves in the same polarity as the surrounding field. Suddenly reverse that field and, yeah, it would probably be strongly repulsed.

-I think Hurley, Kate, Sawyer and Jack were chosen because they represent the biggest threat to forming and leading a society at odds with the goals of !Henry and Team Others (which, to a large extent, they did). Locke and Eko are too self-absorbed to really lead, and while Hurley is likeable and trustworthy, he represents no threat of violence like Kate or Sawyer.

Trixie said...

Here's my question... the read-out that Locke took from the observation hatch, looked to be about 10 pages long... am I supposed to believe that when Locke looked through it and it kept saying entry accepted (or whatever) and the numbers that he didn't notice a section said SYSTEM FAILURE SYSTEM FAILURE and notice the date was the same day of their flight?? hmmm lazy writers.... :)

jenn said...

melodrama -
i think your point #5 is VERY VERY IMPORTANT. WHY are there all these connections? Why do all the survivors have similar pasts (something to run from) too, if the crash was a random event that Desmond accidentally created? That the Dharma people actually gathered the survivors and then orchestrated the crash THROUGH Desmond, that would really be something. Not sure. I'm not a good theorist. Reading all this helps me understand the show so much more...

Hobnail_Boot said...

My random thoughts/questions/observations:

- Libby provides a link between Desmond and Hurley

- Is 'Libby' a pet-abbreviation of 'Elizabeth'?

- I'm convinced that Libby is and always has been either A) a pathological liar, or B) involved at a very high level.

- Seemed to me that the entire hut set-up was a facade. This idea is strengthened by Sayid's discovery that there was nothing behind the Dharma doors that the Others had been protecting at gunpoint.

- This leads me to believe that their camp is set up elsewhere, somewhere we haven't seen yet.

- Why was Hurley brought to the meeting? He didn't belong, and the best idea I can come up with is that the others needed someone to provide the 815'ers with a warning.

- Desmond is dead.

- I imagine season 3 will begin with Eko and Locke running like madmen from the Swan.

- Charlie seemed more assertive than we've ever seen before. If Eko and/or Locke are dead, then perhaps Charlie will join Sayid as leaders of the 815'ers.

- How heartbreaking was it seeing Desmond read the letter from Penny?

- Is the Russian plane going to crash? Have they found what they're looking for? I believe this will be a HUGE part of season 3.

- Thank God Michael is gone.

- After seeing the Pneumatic Tube Pile (everyone must call it the PTP from this point on), I am convinced that every Darmite has gone insane.

My final thought: The statue in my opinion is a red herring.. along with Adam/Eve and the Polar Bear. A sick, sick joke by the writers :)

Rick Cooper said...
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Rick Cooper said...
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Rick Cooper said...
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W2M said...

JENN say "That the Dharma people actually gathered the survivors and then orchestrated the crash THROUGH Desmond, that would really be something."

Good point, Kelvin did know he was being followed, yes from experience, but he would may have planned for him to follow. He was being mysterious and that made Desmond want to follow. Knowing that if Desmond did follow there was no one left to press the button, purposely orchestrating the "attraction" of the plane to the island, at that specific moment in time. And Desmond thought he was to blame, but he was manipulated.

Som said...

I wonder if Penny was looking for some kind of tracker she had put on the boat. Normally the island's magnetic field shielded it, but when the magnet did a flip the signal somehow leaked out. The Russian's said something which made it sound like they had seen it before, the last time the magnet went screwy.

macm said...

russians don't say 'por que',

macm said...

do they?

Brett Hyman said...

The Russians in the artic area were looking for the Island. The island has been cloaked by magnetic fields. If you remember the map on the door, part of the Hanso Foundation's research is on weather modification and another part talks about Polar Bears.

Its logical to believe that the Russians were employed by Penny to find desmond. They probably did have some kind of tracker on the boat, one that was blocked by the cloaked EMP of the Island. I think the Island is IN the Artic. That is why there was a polar bear on the island, because they are in the artic. Polar bears can REMAIN on the island, because there is a polar bear research facility in the southeast area (see blast door map).

Next season it's likely we will get flashbacks from some of the others, and we will learn how they became involved in the Dharma Project.

MJ said...

I thought that Charlie's reaction at the end of the show was really odd. I guess you could chalk it up to shock, but it seemed really strange to me that he wouldn't be more concerned with Eko and Locke and making sure they were ok... even enlisting some of the others to come and check out the remains of the hatch.

I did like Locke's comment to Eko "I was wrong..."

A comment on the show... I used to watch this show and LOVE it... now I just find I have a love/hate relationship with it... too many unanswered questions - and lame coincidences. Until the writers stop introducing so many questions and start answering more questions, I feel like I'm just getting played.

Greg said...

I believe Michael was told to sail at "325 degrees", right? And I am trying to remember how Fake Henry described it .... something like "you will find rescue"? The wording seemed a bit awkward and thus significant.

Other significance on the show to that number:
Fake Henry's birthday is 3/25
Desmond had a BMW 325
Clock on the wall at the airport bar was 3:25.
Clever writers or deeper meaning?

IAmUnimaginative said...

No, this guy is definitely Matthew Fox. Jack's bad twin? Or maybe Jack is the bad twin.

Koneko said...

The two guys at the end are not speaking russian, it is portuguese.

Great blog, greetings from Mexico.

apskrap said...

Hi guys!

I love reading your theories and speculations, I just want to add a few remarks:

* The guys in the arctic were speaking portugese.

* Charlie acted very weird during the entire episode. When he met weeping Locke in the forest he was all... strange and sarcastic, just like in the end after the magnetism-thingie going berzerk. Could it be the number-drugs changing him in some way? Imagine then what'll happen to little baby Aaron should Claire keep on injecting him (it didn't do anything harmful to Desmond though).

anne said...

I second that Matt Fox is the Artic guy. Absolutely!

Anonymous said...

I think Charlie has the sickness...he has been acting strange for the last two or three episodes.

IAmUnimaginative said...

Charlie has been pissed at Locke for some time now.

Trixie said...

Here's a little link to a web chat today with Michael Ausiello of TV Guide... one of the comments was interesting about the 108 numbers multiply out to the number that the two snow guys responded to...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2006/05/24/DI2006052401841.html

Trixie said...
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Trixie said...

Arrg There should be a .html at the end of the above... I don't know how to insert a hyperlink in here ...

Julie said...

Hey greg, Check out the time you posted your last comment. Coincidence? I think not!

Anonymous said...

Has anyone else noticed that some of the characters who populate the show look like other characters- not exactly like twins but close enough to be confusing?

For example:
1. Penny Widmore looked similar to Sawyer's woman who he bilked in "Confidence Man"
2. Jack's doppleganger in the arctic research station
3. Zeke/Tom with beard looks very similar to Kelvin both in build and in mannerisms

Can anyone think of any others?

Am I looking for things that simply aren't there? I hate the "clone theory" and sincerely hope it does not come into play but what if the old adage that everyone has a twin somewhere in the world is significant to Dharma/Hanso research?

Cheers.
Anne

Anonymous said...

I'm not sure about how 'good' the others are. Didn't they KILL a bunch of the survivoirs from the Tail Section?

Julie said...

I think the only time we know for sure of an Other killing is in the case of Ethan who hung Charlie and killed Scott because of his desperation to get claire or her baby. Other than that we only know they have kidnapped people. We assume they are still living though.

Anonymous said...

- Didn't Kelvin show Sayid a picture of his daughter in an earlier episode and wasn't the picture of Kate? So Kate's father was on the island. Did he really die? For being a soldier, it was a rather wimpy way to go?

- I thought the Others and Charlie had very blase reactions to the Hatch blowing up or whatever happened. They didn't miss a beat after it happened.

- I don't think we will see Michael or Walt for awhile. This could be an "out" for the problem of Walt getting old in real life while he is supposed to be ten on the show.

- What was the comment HGI made about Walt? Something about he wasn't what they expected or could handle? We still have to find out what is so special about Walt?

- It was also weird how Kelvin had Desmond use the vaccine every nine days even though he knew it was safe to walk around outside...or is it?

melodrama said...

1. I agree that the Arctic guy looks a lot like Matthew Fox. That's what I thought when I watched it. But if you watch it again, it doesn't look EXACTLY like him. I couldn't find the name of these guys in the credits though, and not Penny's real name either, so I guess they are really the same people or the LOST people are just getting us excited over nothing!

2. We're not sure the Others KILLED the tail section people. We have no evidence of that right now, it was just what the Tailers assumed happened. From what I remember from a previous comment, Dharma in Buddhism is supposed to mean to use nonviolence to achieve your goal. Maybe it's just part of the experiment, or that they need these people to help the Rebel Dharmites beat the other bad Dharmites (maybe that's why they need Kate Jack and Sawyer?).

3. The comment about the foot statue... the Colossus of Rhodes article doesn't mention anything about four toes, unless I missed something. There would have to be a purpose for the four toes, since Sayeed noticed it and brought it up. Also, the Colossus of Rhodes would be too old, and the statue was too new-looking to be ancient in my opinion (especially being right next to the saltwater that would splash on it, and being in the direct sun).

pdiddy said...

Kelvin wasn't Kate's dad. He was the one who trained Sayid. Kate's dad was just in the car with him.

Did anyone else notice that the "other" that Sawyer bagged was one of the boat twins? No DVR here, so I can't confirm that.

Great1 said...

YES!!! with Desmond finally confirming that the button brought down the plane, my theory has finally been proved....or so i think. I have been preaching for weeks that Dharma could not have picked the people on the plane because there was no sure way to make them survive. So the plane coming down was pure accident. But then i thought about the chain of events that lead Desmond away, and something doesnt feel right. Im not sure what it is, i really dont know, but something doesnt feel right. I have all the proof i want, that the plane coming to the island was pure accident, and the people that survived was pure luck, but i dunno, it feels wrong somehow.

Anonymous said...

Goodwin also definately killed somebody. He broke Nathan's neck when he was pretending to let him out of Ana Lucia's little hole in the ground. So Ethan and Goodwin are the true "murderers" of the group, and I don't think Alex was lying about Claire dying in the procedure they were going to perform to get Aaron out of her. So murder isn't their main goal, but they will do it if they have to.

Also, with the computer being destroyed, will the magnet and white light be going off every 108 minutes, or did the key turning represent the ultimate end of that as a threat? And if it did, why did it take so long for somebody to do it?

jenndes said...

My husband & I have been huge Lost fans since it started. Last night was amazing - couldn't even take a pee break :) Anyway, if there's one thing I've learned about this show it's that EVERYTHING HAS MEANING. No comment, look, item, action is without some reason/meaning. There are a few things that I'm convinced of:

1. Penny's father is financing & running this whole thing, wanted to ensure Desmond would be out of Penny's life, so orchestrated the boat race & sent Libby to make sure he was given the boat which would lead him to the island. Penny knows this and knows all about her father's "experiment". Her letter from the Charles Dickens book reinforces the the idea that she will wait for him & do anything to be with him. She has money and can afford to do whatever it takes to find the island - hence the guys monitoring for a magnetic disruption.

2. Libby is/was absolutely key in the experiment/project. I'm thinking she could be Penny's mom, but perhaps even more - perhaps a "scout" for those they felt would be "right" for the experiment - hence her chosing Hurley from the asylum.

3. The fact that Jack was getting out to jog at the stadium when Penny & Desmond were meeting for the last time was incredibly important. I am very convinced that Jake is either a scientist or crucial part of this experiment/project. Remember how he miraculously saved his ex-wife's life w. his "impossible" surgery. He knew something that know one else did. My husband thinks the gray-haired guy that Anna met up w. en route to Australia is Jack's father. Then Jack met Anna just before boarding the flight in the bar. Now Anna is dead.

4. Kate & Sawyer (together w. Jack) are a part of the project. Did you notice their looks to each other just before the show ended? They were not afraid, not angry. They were looks of "knowing" or "ah, so here we are, the jig is up." Hurley is not involved in the project - not aware of what's going on. He is simply a messenger - a pawn. Weird that Libby had to develop a romantic relationship w. him - there's something behind that.

5. Michael & his son are likely going to be killed trying to escape/get rescued. The fact that Henry didn't say "you'll get to go home" but rather you'll be rescued leaves doubt - room for interpretation. Their interpretation of being rescued may be death. I was surprised that they didn't show the boat blowing up w. them on it - not because Henry & his clan planted a bomb on it but rather that's what happens when you head in the direction Henry told them to go.

6. Charlie is not a good person. Something fishy is going on. His behavior at the end is completely unacceptable. Any normal person would be running around trying to get help for Locke, Echo & Desmond. But why was he so willing to help Echo find the dynomite & only back off once Echo was lighting the stuff? Charlie wanted them all dead - but why. I certainly hope they are not dead - they are three of the most interesting characters!

7. Bottom line: I think the entire thing is a setup - including the rock foot. These people have loads of money and can do anything. Also: Remember Desmond said, "There is no way out. We're in a snow globe." He knows something more and was clearly in a hopeless state. Could it be something like that Jim Carrey movie "The Truman Show?" An enormous enclosed "set" that somehow has openings for "chosen" guinea pigs to get in but can't get out?

My husband had a good point as well - if they made the plane crash on purpose (which I think they did), how could they predict who would survive the crash - that the "right" ones would survive - especially if some of the passengers were a part of the scheme?

Oh, I'm going to be dying 'til September!!!

-Jennifer

jenndes said...

Job Description from www.hasnocareers.com
Art Therapist/Psychologist:
The successful applicant will receive a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to work in a state-of-the-art mental care facility using cutting edge technology in the company of the best and brightest in the field. The successful applicant will relocate to the coastal city of Vik, Iceland and work with a varied, diverse population of patients from around the world. Practical experience providing care for highly-gifted and highly unstable minds is essential, as well as fluency in Eastern European languages and a working knowledge of applied mathematics. Extensive background checks, periodic drug testing and a lifetime non-disclosure agreement are mandatory requirements of this position.

Sounds just like what Libby was doing.

jenndes said...

Oh, my gosh...Here's another job opening - unbelievable! I emailed them asking for more info in the position (i.e., salary) - I'll let you know if I get a reply.

Personal Assistant
to Thomas Werner Mittelwerk.

LOCATION: NEW YORK, USA/COPENHAGEN, DENMARK

The successful applicant will work in close proximity with the Chief Technologist and Operating Officer of the Hanso Foundation, providing support in both his personal and professional endeavors. The applicant must have at least three years of experience as either a primary or secondary assistant to a high-level professional corporate officer and must have a Ph.D. or advanced scientific degree in any one of the following fields: cryptography, comparative religion, molecular biology, Lacanian psychology, fluid mechanics, turbulence and computation -- or a minimum of 5 years in a recognized think-tank or government sponsored research facility. Fluency in Danish is essential, as well as French and German with some working knowledge of multiple asian languages.

Anonymous said...

During the flashback, Kelvin asked Desmond "What did one snowman say to the other snowman?" Desmond responded "huh"? (I think) It sounded a lot like a code question that spooks use (and in a flashback Kelvin admitted he was a spook for many years).

Then we saw Locke ask Desmond the same question and Desmond answered "Got a carrot?" or something along those lines? Was this "joke" ever brought up in the beginning of this season between Locke and Desmond or is this another Lost mystery?

Also, has anyone commented about the following on the Hanso Foundation website: Under Active Projects, Electromagnetic research, the caption of the photograph in the contents page says "Early morning hours of October 62, 9291." What is up with that?

Rute said...

What an awsome finale. I just loved it!

and it was great to hear my own language. The guys in the artic were brazilien, not russian. They were talking portuguese.

looking forward to read your big thoughts about the show, Brian!

Rute said...

one more thing. if Desmond knew there was no sickness (because he folowed Kelvin), why did he asked Jack or Locke (don't sure) when they first entered the hatch how many of them got the sickness? And why he continued to inject himself with the medecine and run away with it? hmmm

Rick Cooper said...
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Anonymous said...

If you don't have tivo go here:

http://dynamic.abc.go.com/streaming/landing

Rick Cooper said...
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Rachel said...

anonymous snowman question:
when the survivors opened the hatch at the beginning of the season, and Locke went down there, Desmond asked him the snowman question. Locke obviously didn't know what he was talking about. Presumably that was the code question given to the Dharma Initiative people working in the Swan Hatch, so that they would know for sure when their replacement button-pusher came. Only the actual person meant to come would know the answer to the joke. Which was "smells like carrots" or something along those lines.

Anonymous said...

"The applicant must have at least three years of experience as either a primary or secondary assistant to a high-level professional corporate officer and must have a Ph.D. or advanced scientific degree in any one of the following fields: cryptography, comparative religion, molecular biology, Lacanian psychology, fluid mechanics, turbulence and computation -- or a minimum of 5 years in a recognized think-tank or government sponsored research facility."

I Googled Lacanian psychology and found this link.(amoung others)

http://www.colorado.edu/English/ENGL2012Klages/lacan.html

Some of the text....
For Lacan, this project is impossible. The ego can never take the place of the unconscious, or empty it out, or control it, because, for Lacan, the ego or "I" self is only an illusion, a product of the unconscious itself. In Lacanian psychoanalysis, the unconscious is the ground of all being.

kram said...

A question I have not seen yet... Desmond connected the wires to make the hatch come down, so who/what made that happen the time
Locke was trapped under the blast door? It couldn't have been Desmond - he was on his sailboat. It couldn't have been Kelvin because he was already dead and it couldn't have been HGI, since he was locked up in the safe. And nobody else would have known how to do it. Perhaps it was set off remotely by the Others?

Dave said...

LoL. YOu have 108 comments right now.

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Chris Bobb said...

I think the Russian guy at the end of the show was and was not Matthew Fox. When we first see him it is a different guy, that guy picks up the phone to call Penelope. Then it shows her answering the phone. when it switches back to show the guy, THEN it is Matthew Fox playing that guys part. Look at the guy's nose before and after they show Penelope, it clearly looks different. They either had Matthew play that guys part becuase they both looked like each other and it was just for fun. Or there is some deeper hidden message that we will all look too deep into :) Check it out and see what you think.

Mike said...

Since there is a general belief among some fans that the pearl is not the true question mark represented on the map, does anyone think that what is "behind the wall" where the key is used is a path that leads to the center of the island? We still have not seen two of the four hatches, and I believe the question mark is NOT one of the remaining hatches, but something else entirely.

Anonymous said...

As for Michael leaving / not leaving the island, Harold Perrineau said in an interview that the original plan was for Michael to come back in the fourth season to rescue the survivors.

Of course, the writers are changing their game plan because Lost is now almost guaranteed to last more than four seasons, so Michael may never come back, or he may come back during the final season, whenever that turns out to be. Who knows, maybe they won't be saved now, or maybe they'll get saved in a different way.

On a side note, all the "Others" stuff is reminding me of Slugworth (actually Wilkinson) from the Willy Wonka movie or, more likely, the "Wizard" (actually the fortune teller) from the Wizard of Oz. Hmmmmm... I'm thinking that it's not such a coincidence that both Both Harold and Adewale were on the HBO series OZ?

jenndes said...

Kram said: It couldn't have been Kelvin because he was already dead and it couldn't have been HGI, since he was locked up in the safe.

Actually, if I remember right, he was not locked up at that time - he was eating cereal w. Locke for "good behavior" for writing the map & that's why he was able to save Locke from being crushed by the doors. But was he within visual of Locke? I don't recall. If so, he'd be hard-pressed to trip the alarm/lock-down.

My husband thinks that one of the guys jumping off the boat at the end (where Michael gets on w. his son) was Jack's father. We don't have Tivo so will have to check it out on line to confirm.

jenndes said...

Ok, so I'm obsessed. I just thought of something as I got out of the shower - may sound crazy. Sun & Jin - there's something going on there. Remember Sun's father was very wealthy & hired Jin to do his "dirty" work - no one knows what that was - hmmmm. Then we find out Sun is pregnant on the island and Sun thinks it's not Jin's baby. Perhaps Jin has a clue about this? Then Jin goes along with allowing his pregnant wife to go along w. them on a very dangerous mission - where they think there's a possibility of someone being killed. Now, I'm not a man, but I don't know of a single man who would go along with letting his pregnant wife (who he thinks is carrying his child) go along with him on a mission like this. We know the "others" are quite interested in babies & children. Is it possible that Jin is working for them & leading his wife Sun into a setup where they can use her baby - but not hurt her? Is Sun's father somehow involved in this whole experiment/scheme? Does Jin really speak/understand English? Oh, there are just so many mysteries!!!

Anonymous said...

Sun's baby is Jin's - its the magic of the island. Same as Lock can walk and Rose is cured of cancer. Jin is now able to produce.

Anonymous said...

More logic - she's 8 weeks pregnanct per Jack and they have been on the island for 4 months.

Anonymous said...

I don't think the guy in the end is Jack - I've watched it over several times. I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this but do you remember Calvin? He was in Sayid's flashback - one of the army generals or something.

Anonymous said...

I don't think Calvin's dead - in Sayid's flashback he showed him a picture with himself and a young girl. He is someone's father and will be back - otherwise what was the significance of the photo in the flashback?

Anonymous said...

I also don't think Michael and Walt and the real Michael and Walt. They let some version of them leave on that boat (not that I think they will get very far). I think the clone theory is the best so far for this show. I mean when Michael was at the camp there was a look alike of Ethan and Desmond. Maybe the guy at the end is Jack's look alike/clone!

Anonymous said...

Kram - I think it had to Henry - he was out before that happened otherwise he wouldnt have been able to help Lock.

macmiller said...

maybe now that this magnetic field has been somehow altered, the magic healing of the island will change. perhaps locke won't be able to walk anymore and rose will start showing signs of illness?

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pdiddy said...

kram - The doors came down on Locke because it was in Lockdown mode. Desmond was hot wiring it to drop the doors. Also, HGI couldn't have hot wired it. He was locked up at the time. He got out because Locke let him out to help him pry the door up, then he got caught. If you remember, the loud speaker said "5 minutes to lockdown mode," so I don't think there was anything shady going on with the doors coming down.

There has to be something going on with the "HurleyBird." Don't know what, but something is going on. Has anyone else had visions on the island ala Jack's dad and Kate's horse? If not, then that original theory is correct about the others wanting them. They have someohow been able to make visions appear. The only hole in that theory was that Hurley didn't have any visions (yes, I know Dave, but that is because Hurley is a nut). But now we learned that Hurley was asked to come along to just relay the message.

I think Penelope had some kind of tracking device on the boat. I think that magnetic cloak theory might be right, and now they have found the tracking device because of the new incident.

This show is going to change for better or worse. We had our first real-time real world view of the show. I am also convinced that something is going to happen every 108 minutes now because the button is no longer being pushed. If that key stopped it, then it would've been used a long time ago.

Brian, some summer homework for you my friend. Are you going to make that post that shows how everyone is connected in the real world?

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Dave said...

Just a comment on the 'rebel' theory - my pet theory is not that they are rebels, but that they are intented to be there. Hear me out:

We know that the DeGroots were planning a kind of utopian society. If they studied existing attempts at creating utopias, they know that most eventually become stagnant (see the Shakers in the US for an example) - perhaps they designed in some 'hostiles' to provide conflict for the members of the utopian group? This would provide some dynamics to the utopian society & perhaps make it stronger, but maybe something went wrong - the 'hostiles' took their mission too seriously? The 'utopians' were not prepared for real conflict? Perhaps the 'utopians' decided to hide away and are still on the island?

Rick Cooper said...
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Anonymous said...

Regarding Charlie's reaction to the hatch mayhem: stuff happened, the dust settled, and maybe he saw that Locke, Eko, and Desmond were fine. And then he just headed to the beach.

No big deal...

macmiller said...

considering that the swan hatch was being monitored, wouldn't it be possible that 'they' saw michael there at the computer and used that opportunity to convince him to come after walt. thus starting the whole process to get jack & co.

Rick Cooper said...
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Anonymous said...

"jenndes said...
Ok, so I'm obsessed. I just thought of something as I got out of the shower - may sound crazy."

It does sound crazy. Like all of your other completely uninformed comments. Please keep them to yourself.

Rick Cooper said...
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Anonymous said...

"jenndes said...

My husband thinks the gray-haired guy that Anna met up w. en route to Australia is Jack's father."


are you serious? or crazy?

Brian said...

You guys are out of control (especially you, "Rick Cooper" - your picture kinda scares me!)

Sorry for the delays. There are still a couple of major points to this episode that aren't sitting right with me. If you remember, the same thing happened with me during the "?" episode until I pieced together that they were in Hatch C4 instead of the ?, at which point things made sense to me.

I'm going to go back and review a few things from older episodes this weekend and see if the pieces of the puzzle start to fit together and I have a moment of clarity.

In case you are curious to what keeps me awake at night, here are the main topics:

1. HGI, and his role in the Swan Hatch.
2. "The Incident"
3. Clones / Twins / Rebel Dharmites
4. Conflicting Dates and Times

I've got everything else to the point where I'm satisfied with the explanations.

Again - keep in mind that there are a lot of fan sites out there that are not officially sanctioned by the show, and you should take anything listed on them with a grain of salt. I've seen a bunch mentioned in the comments section here.

Also, I picked up "Bad Twin" this week and plan on tearing through it shortly. Rest assured I'll have a full post about that at some point in the next few weeks too.

To Do List:
- "Live Together, Die Alone Analysis"
- Season Finale Rankings / Analysis
- "Bad Twin" Analysis
- The Lost Experience Breakdown
- Lost Character Connections

Seriously, you guys need to start paying me :)

Rick Cooper said...
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phishpac said...

rick, the goblet video is fake. just so you know.

Rick Cooper said...
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Rick Cooper said...
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melodrama said...

I think the key stopped the magnet for good. It would be too hard to explain next season how they will stop the magnet every 108 minutes. Just because no one used the key before doesn't mean anything... everyone before thought that you had to put the numbers in the computer, and that if you used the key then it would explode. Who would want to explode? I'm not saying it really did explode, but if everyone thought that, then it's enough to prevent people from using it. What kind of crazy experiment is this anyway? Who would put that much responsibility (a huge magnet) in a test subject's hands if it's that dangerous?

Anyway the magnet has explained what it could at this point, so it's time to go on to the rest of the hatches and other things. Like I said before, I think the Dharmites are in the "?" hatch watching.

I don't think Charlie is bad... he's just not extremely bright. He backed off the idea after providing the dynamite to Eko because he realized it wasn't a good idea. Some people speak their minds before they think, and then they realize their mistake. He may even be in shock right now. If there was a big explosion and he passed out, then he woke up in the middle of the jungle without remembering the blast, he'll probably just go back to the camp.

I think Michael is going to come back. Anyone see Conan last night with Harold Perrineau (Michael) on there? He said that when he watched the episode, he thought he's going to "turn around" the boat at the end (this was a fleeting comment -- meaning he just said it really fast and the topic was something else, but I think he has that gut feeling for good reason).

Also I agree that it really seems like Libby was in on this. I forgot, did anyone ever confirm that she wasn't on the flight manifest? I remember someone mentioning that before. If she is in on this, she would have to have been on the Island before the crash, because it would have been to risky for her to be on the plane while it crashed -- she could have died easily. I think there are really 3 possibilities here:

1. Libby was there on the island before, and was in on it, which means that Desmond was there on purpose.

2. Libby is not in on it and there is some weird explanation why they're all connected.

3. They are all connected by coincidence, and the LOST writers are just showing us how people in the world are all connected somehow.

phishpac said...

Yeah dude, it's fake. Sorry =[ In the april 3rd official podcast, the producers say so.

Rick Cooper said...
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Anonymous said...

Since the magnetic powers of the island have been overwritten do you think that if Locke is still alive next season that he will loose the use of his legs again? maybe a punishment for his loss of faith.

Chris Bobb said...

First off. If you don't listen to the official LOST podcast, do, because they answer many questions we have here. Now...the giant foot. From what the podcast says, I believe the giant statue to have been of Anubis. Anubis was an Egyptian god. He was the person who escorted the deceased through the procedures for entering the underworld. Egyptian statue...heiroglyphics in the hatch...interesting. Hmmm, VERY interesting.

Rick Cooper said...

Based on Brian's earlier comment and feedback from someone else, I went ahead and removed my comments. Better to leave a little mystery rather than reveal too many secrets. Thanks for the great site Brian.

Justin said...

I still think that Locke/Eko are dead.

As for Bad Twin, I finished it last night, while it doesn't shead any real new light, it does a good job of explaning some common themes the show brings up. It's a really decent book considering the author is fake.

Anonymous said...

As others have said, do listen to the lost podcast at http://a.media.abc.com/podcast/lost/Lostpodcast_19_direct.mp3 before posting :-)! Shame there's no transcript. So far the most important thing I've heard is that the statue was NOT built by the Dharma Initiative, despite its 'new' appearance, but by people on the island before, and that the Island is only visible to the outside world during these EM system failures - which has now happened twice we know of.

Anonymous said...

I've never really got this obsession with there being "rebel" and "by the book" Dharmites...Octam's razor, guys, sometimes applies even to Lost - don't make it more complicated than it is! Whilst it was a good theory that Brian come up with, I think "Live together, die alone" should now put this theory to rest. Why? That bloody beard! When we saw Mr Friendly in the medical hatch without the beard, people used the twin theory to maintain there are good and bad dharmites, but now we've seen that Mr Friendly does in fact wear a fake beard. So we have only ever seen one group of others, and there's been no official mention of 2 groups anyway! We've seen that Ethan and Zeke were working together, that Alex and Zeke were, and now that Alex/Zeke/Miss Clue are with Henry.

The only unanswered things are:
i) Are The Others former Dharmites? That is unanswered, as Kelvin refers to them as hostiles - so he wasn't in cahoots with them.
ii) Alex is nice? Well this isn't the right question. Alex is obviously much nicer that the rest of The Others, probably because she joined not out of choice, but by being taken from her mother. The real question is, why hasn't she ran away from them back to her mother (or off the island)? Most likely, she doesn't know Russou is still alive and she doesn't know where to go if she did leave.

Lastly, The Others are not "friendly" and never have been. But it also now seems they're not completely evil:
i) They've killed - definately not nice
ii) But they kill only with some reason - Ethan to get Claire back, Goodwin when about to be found out (Ana Lucia attacked *him*, don't forget), they didn't tell Michael to kill.
iii) They might even stick to their word e.g. letting Walt/Michael go (TBC obviously), and do favours e.g. letting Hurley go, and Kate/Sawyer etc.
iv) But they're liars and certainly not "good people", whatever they say e.g. Henry's blatant lies whilst captured, drugging Claire so she would give up her baby.

P.S.1. That was long; sorry!
P.S.2. Has anyone noticed that...Henry must have entered the numbers, but suggested Lock didn't need to? Perhaps he doesn't know everything even if he is leading The Others.

anotherone said...

The guys on the snowed research station aren't Russians they are Brazilians...

Anonymous said...

First, no way Eko is dead. Based on previous reports from the producers that his encounter with Smokey had a deep meaning that will be fully explored later. Now, they can always change their plans, but I do not think his story is resolved. Locke is more likely to die, but they haven't closed him out either. I'm not keen on the idea of replacing these people. They are looking for 2 women and one man... two of which will have "Leadership" qualities. This would lean towards the death of Locke and Eko.. and they could explore the smokey encoutner after Eko's death.

The actor who plays Locke is quotes as saying that based on how they left him in the finale, he honestly doesn't know whether he's going to live or die.

Anonymous said...

"We're the good guys"

I think they ARE the good guys..a nd I think they are against Dharma, call them Rebel Dharmites if you must, but I don't think they are Dharma.

Kelvin was working for Dharma and he called them the Hostiles. Of course, we was also lying about the suit. Considering, they could be dressing this way to appear as hostiles.

My gut tells me that they ARE the good guys when compared to Dharma/Hanso/Widmore. But could one of those organizations be HIM? I think Penny is "good".

Ethan killing may have been to appease "HIM"... not that HIM told him to, but that he could not return to the others without Claire.. so he was desperate. The killing may not have been endorsed. but they also killed the guy from the tail section. Apparently it's OK to kill people as long as they are not good people.

One other thing. If I had been beaten like Fake Henry, I might seek revenge(such as Anna would have) It would be very difficult not to at LEAST hit/kick jack when the tables were turned(though Jack never did hit him, nor did Sawyer or Kate). He was surprisingly cordial.. and treated them as well as could be imagined for prisoners with their hands tied and burlap sacks over their heads. I do not believe he plans on hurting the,.

Anonymous said...

you dont know if the hatch even blew up in an 'explosion'. It could have been some super freaky magnet dodah that repelled the hatch door and made it fly away. so desmond locke and eko would be fine. what dyou think??

Hobbes said...

We don't know for certain that the others didn't tell Michael not to at least shoot Ana; we never heard them tell Michael to lead the four to a different part of the island either (rather then return the four to tented camp, where Sayid, Jin & Sun sailed to). Also Michael said to Hurley that Libby was an accident. Leading me to think Ana wasn't. When Michael asked what do I tell them? Ms.Klugh said it won't matter they will be so mad it won't matter what you say. Hence they wanted Ana dead and Micheal to shoot/wound himself and let HGI free; but Libby was an accident. I think Michael is truly sorry for what he did to Libby. And suspect that we will see Michael try to make up for that in the coming seasons.

Also we don't know that HGI is the leader (Him) but he does appear to be higher ranking.

When the White Event was happening the Others didn't seem too concerned, other than flinching at the sound.

A Skinner Box, at the very least seems to be the simplest explination (Octam's razor right?).
If you follow the ARG part of Lost, I remember seeing some Electromagnetic device on the hanso site. Perhaps it's being used in the Swan hatch to add to the credibility factor that the button pushers must be made to feel that what they are doing is of the "utmost importance". So if you don't push the button you are lead to believe that the sky is falling or in this case that some sort of planetary magnetic containment is going to collapse (break the damn rather then just pull out your finger).
Hurley commented once the the washer and dryer seemed newer. Perhaps if there was an older set they were broken (smashed) in a prior incident like we saw in the Locke/Eko/Desmond incident. Maybe in the next shipment Windimore will ship an even newer washer & dryer? ok I digress.

Anonymous said...

Seriously; listen to the podcast guys! There's a serious hint (which is as good as fact) that Locke & Eko certainly aren't dead, and we go on to learn, for example, how Locke got into a wheelchair later on.

Anonymous said...

...Oh yeh and that also say how the island only becomes visible to the outside world during systems failures, so the Swan and the button are real, not a Skinner box. Also a hint that maybe Penny is looking for Desmond, and not just the island, which I
found quite confusing (makes things even more complicated)...!

Furthermore, a statement that "we've seen Smokey during this series but might not realise it"! Any ideas what that is, guys? Could it be the visions? The bird? The voices?

Anonymous said...

Smokey could've been the black smoke that Jack & co. thought Sayid created...

ALJewell said...

i think the statue may be anubis
he is an ancient egyptian god who was involved in death, the underworld, embalming, disease, medicines etc and he had four toes on his hind feet. this four toed thing isnt always mentioned but ive seen a couple of references to it. put this together with the references to 'cerberus' mentioned on the black light map ( watchdog of hades - greek god of the underworld ( hades’ wife was persephone!)). and also of course you have those hieroglyphs too - are we getting something ?

http://members.aol.com/egyptart/anubis.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anubis
http://www.ashmol.ox.ac.uk/gri/carter/258-c258-1.html
http://www.awarenessquest.com/pwhiteedit.htm

the last link refers to Egyptian hieroglyphs found in Australia with references to anubis. surely this must be significant.
I don’t have the hours to research this too deeply so have a look and see what you make of it.

Anonymous said...

Couple of people talking about whether Charlie is sick or something? I think your evidence is spurious at best! At the end he was probably just trying not to worry Claire, and being his immature self, I wouldn't dwell on it. He was acting sarcastically to Locke because he hates Locke - have you forgotten The Long Con already, where he conspired with Sawyer to get the guns because Locke hit him and took Claire away?!

On that note, isn't it funny how the two characters I probably most felt sorry for, and rooted for, are now quite hated - Michael and Charlie? Michael's story about how his ex-wife took Walt away from him was horrible, and although it perhaps sheds light on why he was willing to go so far to make sure he didn't loose Walt again, doesn't justify murder of two of his friends. He could have told the Losties and maybe Jack/Sawyer/Hurley/Kate would have gone voluntarily, just like they did anyway! Charlie was pushed into heroin, then abandoned, by his brother, and did a lot for Claire which she forgot. Now they seem to be back together, but after he attacked Sun and conspired with Sawyer I hate him! Can't believe Claire is getting romantic with the lad!

ALJewell said...

Thinking about why Jack, Kate and Sawyer, from the writers' point of view, this is the classic love triangle. Lots of dramatic potential in the various relationships while under imprisonment. And if HGI and co are into experiments, just think of all the fun they could have getting Kate to choose between the two! Lots of potential psychological insights in that. And if they are out to trick the rest of the survivors, then who better to pick up than the con man and the fugitive? Alongside a very handy doctor, of course.

low said...

Guys, it's Occam's Razor, not "Octam's"

Anonymous said...

In the season 3 finale, everyone is going to die

Anonymous said...

If every one dies in the season 3 finale, then who will push the button?

Anonymous said...

that's the point. If none pushes the button, then the whole island will blow up because of the elecromagnet being too strong. and if the island is gone then there's no need for the show anymore.

Anonymous said...

But Michael and Walt are off the island. What happens to them?

Anonymous said...

What don't you undersytand about EVERYONE dies???????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????????Michael and Walt are part of everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

What don't you undersytand about EVERYONE dies???????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????????Michael and Walt are part of everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

What don't you undersytand about EVERYONE dies???????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????? Michael and Walt are part of everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

apskrap said...

Concerning Charlie:

It can't be a coincidence that the only guy undergoing a serious personality change in the final episode is the only one to inject himself wih the 4815162342-medicine. Ethan did inject Claire (or was it the prenatal baby only?) back in S01, and you must remember how she acted during her kidnap-flashback.

apskrap said...

Found this in the wikipedia-article on Anubis:

"Since he had been more associated with beliefs about the weighing of the heart than had Osiris, Anubis retained this aspect, and became considered more the gatekeeper of the underworld, the Guardian of the veil (of death). As such, he was said to protect souls as they journeyed there, and thus be the patron of lost souls (and consequently orphans)."

A few things stand out:

* The weighing of hearts. That connects with the whole good people/bad people theme (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_%28TV_series%29#Black_and_white). The Others seem to be dealing with this subject in many ways. I mean, there must be a reason as to why they took Jack, Kate and Sawyer.

* "The patron of lost souls". It ain't too wrong to say that all of our main characters was in many ways spiritually lost when they boarded Flight 815. Desmond sure was when he came to the island. I'm pretty sure Kelvin didn't join DHARMA in a happy and balanced state. Somehow a lot of unhappy people end up on this island. Why is that?

Don't know what to make of it though. I hope season 3 gives us more info on that big ugly foot. Oh, and speaking of Gods with dogs heads, where has Vincent gone?

izzle said...

whew. I just got done reading all of the 144 comments above. I agree with melodrama as to why the fail-safe wasn't use before. my guess(hope) is that there was huge emp type of thing or a shockwave but no explosion. this way locke, eko and desmond would still be alive. also the flying quarantine door sort of backs me up in the sense that there would be a lot of flying debris along with it if there was an explosion.

melodrama said...

good thinking izzle... if there was an explosion, you would think some other debris would fly out, like trees & dirt, and there would be fire and/or smoke.

an anti-magnet power would cause the door flying, since that was really the only loose metal item outside of the hatch. so the anti-magnet theory makes more sense.

Anonymous said...

The Plane Crash was not merely a coincidence caused by Desmond not entering the numbers. If I recall correctly, there was a Dharma logo on one of the plane's exterior sections.

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