Wednesday, February 04, 2009

"The Little Prince" Instant Reactions!

Brian's One Word Review: Average.

In some ways, my biggest fear came true - with as awesome as the on-Island storyline currently is, it makes the off-Island storyline with the Oceanic Six just seem kinda boring in comparison... and that was the problem with this week for me. Too much time spent with the Oceanic Six and not enough time with our Skipping Survivors. And even when there were really cool concepts in the episode (such as running into themselves from 2004 or running into CFL's crew), there wasn't enough of it to make me consider this episode "awesome". Instead, it was a good setup episode for the upcoming episodes, but not one that there is a ton of stuff to freak out and over-analyze. But there were still a few huge bombshells:

  • JIN IS ALIVE! So apparently he has been floating around the water (nearby the Island), pretty much unconcscious to the skipping in time he's been doing since the Freighter blew up. Initially, it feels a little cheap to have Jin survive the explosion, since logic tells us there was no way he would have survived, but I guess we can chalk it up to the whole "the Island won't let you die until your work is done." And what could it possibly need Jin for?
  • How about luring Sun back to the Island. Next week's preview makes it clear that Ben lets the cat out of the bag that Jin is alive, thus giving her a reason to go back to the Island. If we assume that the Oceanic Six need to go back to the Island to make everything right in the world, it's reasonable to think that the Island would keep Jin alive to ensure that Sun has a reason to go back.
  • Of course, this raises the question of how Ben knows that Jin is alive and on the Island. I guess the easiest answer is "Locke visited him and told him" when he was on his Jeremy Bentham mission to convince the Oceanic Six to come back to the Island. This means that Locke must run into Jin before going to the Orchid, right? Although the scenes from next week made it look like they'll be at the Orchid in next week's episode!
  • CFL ran into Jin in 1988 - so why didn't she recognize him when they ran into each other in 2004? Because she went crazy? Or because they never really had much direct interaction? I quick look at Lostpedia's article on CFL only references Jin once - when he, Bernard, and Sayid set off the trap for the Others - and I can't remember many direct conversations between the two. But seriously, there were only like 40 Survivors, and only two were Korean - so Jin should have stood out to CFL, right?
  • Ajira Airlines finally makes its official appearance on Lost in the form of a water bottle. But my question is, where did those boats come from? A larger boat? An airplane? Unless the Island really did move in space (putting it closer to civilization), I don't really see those two boats being able to make the journey to the Island. And why would they be attacking our Skipping Survivors? And who were they? With all this time-jumping stuff in play, there are TONS of options here - ranging from people who were following the Freighter explosion to the Oceanic Six once they return to the Island to future versions of our Skipping Survivors - who would be literally shooting on themselves (notice how none of the shots were hitting them? That seemed strange). But why? Many questions to ponder here.
  • This week pretty much confirmed that Miles WAS the baby from the season premiere, since Faraday hinted that he had spent some time on the Island before. So Charlotte has spent the most time (at least a few years), followed by Miles (again, years), then Juliet (who has been there for quite some time herself). Is this why Desmond got the same nosebleed when he left the Island? Because he had been there so long? Again, this seems to prove that the bearing you come and go to the Island on is extremely important, and I think the Others know it.
  • So Claire's mom turned out to be a red herring (maybe - or just something to distract Kate while Sun steals Aaron), and I don't really see how any of "The Little Prince" stuff tied into this episode. Pretty sneaky, Lost.
  • Okay, that's all I've got for now. Discuss!

86 comments:

annie said...

JIIIIIIIIIINNNNN!!!

can't say i'm the only person i know that still thought he was alive, but one of the few. i just knew there was more island action for him!!

Anonymous said...

what if the boats were used by the oceanic 6? and they flew somewhere on ajira airways...

im sure that we are going to see that scene from the other boat perspective before the season is over....and what are the odds juliet killed someone we know, maybe even, juliet?

Anonymous said...

Has Ajira Airlines been mentioned before? Should I know that name?

VictorC said...

My mouth literally dropped when I saw Jin.
Which doesn't make sense to me because even if he jumped off the freightor before it blew up, he was too far from the ripple the island created. So how the heck did he move with the island??

And what was up with CFL looking at Jin like that?

Oh and Brian, I don't think that was CFL's crew shooting at them. They jumped to another time while being shot at. Unless it simply jumped to later that night, but I doubt it.

Also, this episode pretty much confirmed that Charlotte was on the island before and that Miles must be Marvin Candle's son.

davis said...

I actually really liked the episode. It was entertaining throughout, and the introduction of the French crew is something I have been waiting for since season 1. The fact that pretty much everyone is starting to get nosebleeds, and Sawyer watching Aaron's birth were both pretty big developments.

The off-island story moved really well I thought. Like we had all hoped, they are pulling the 06 together relatively quickly, which means their return to the island shouldn't take long.

I actually liked this episode better than last week's, believe it or not.

Anonymous said...

Victor C- Your right it was clearly in the future when they were being shot at. They showed the beach camp with all the supplies used up. Oh and WHERE THE HELL ARE ROSE AND BERNARD?

MATTD said...

Dugouts were from the trip from Alcatraz to the beach camp. Aijara landed on the runway Kate and Sawyer made.

Rebecca said...

My brain popped. I wrote some thoughts in a post on my blog. I could copy & paste but that would take a lot of space. I think I'll gather myself & share some thoughts in the morning.

I agree, slow going but I was o_O by the end.

mark daniel said...

ok, i've been reading this blog for a while now and enjoying all the great ideas and speculations every week, so i think i need to start posting too. =)

what a great episode! i can't say that i'm incredibly surprised that jin is alive, but i honestly didn't expect that to be revealed until much later this season, if at all. i have to agree that it's a bit of a stretch that jin survived the explosion of the freighter though. i like jin's character though, and he's changed and developed as a character in some very interesting ways, so i'm glad he's back. the preview for next week shows ben telling sun "jin's alive. and i can prove it!"

any ideas on how ben could do this?

for some reason this episode made me think again of the question, "why does ben want to get back to the island?" i mean, if the island chose locke to take his place as the leader of the others, then what would be waiting for him back there? richard didn't seem to object too strongly to the change.

the flashback of claire giving birth made me think of the last time we saw her, appearing to kate in a dream shouting "don't you dare bring him back!" what if she wasn't talking about aaron, or even locke, but was talking about BEN?!? the island started going seriously crazy when the oceanic six left because they weren't supposed to, but what if there are equally dire consequences if someone who is supposed to leave the island comes back?

Anonymous said...

Jin has to be thinking WTF! haha.

Anonymous said...

Jin is still alive....


Told ya so :)

Seriously, though, that makes it pretty ironic that Sun has gone off the deep end, doesn't it? How will she live with herself when she finds out that Jin is still alive?

Tonysee200x said...

Regarding why "The Little Prince"

http://lost.cubit.net/archives/2009/02/5x04-besixdouze-and-the-little.php

Locke and company comes across some wreckage on the beach after flashing away from their high seas skiff chase. Locke kicks over a can which reads BESIXDOUZE. BE-SIX-DOUZE, or B612 (french) is the name of an asteroid. According to Wiki, the asteroid is named as a reference to... wait for it... "The Little Prince", who lived on an asteroid named B612. How cool is that? Pics and comments after the jump!

Salvar said...

Godammit. I was so confused when people kept insisting that Jin was alive--before that the thought didn't even occur to me. It doesn't make any sense. It works for the plot, but it doesn't make any sense.

Anonymous said...

One thing that has not been mentioned yet is the fact that with the island changing through time and/or space; this allows the writers to answer all of questions concerning the inhabitant’s of the island and how they arrived there. Isn't it coincidental that each time the sky turns white and the survivors have a 5 second advance notice of the next time travel escapade, they arrive at their new time & it just so happens to be when some major players form the past are RE-introduced to the island.

We wondered how the airplane with Eko's brother and all the Virgin Mary drugs crashed on the island or how CFL and the other French survivors of their boat crash landed on the island (beyond the fact that the “numbers” were being continuously broadcast over their communication lines). Could these events be tied into the huge magnetic forces that have to occur for the island to physically move thru time and space ---resulting in whomever is near by in a boat or airplane to the area where the island is moved to, is then sucked into the island? This would certainly help to explain some things.

Do you think the island will move as far back as to explain when and how the black rock and the 4 toes statue became part of the island and our survivors will see how and why those fixtures became part of the island too? This is a creative and easy way for the writers to fill in the gaps and answer our questions concerning the island inhabitants and unusual fixtures.

So we could then extrapolate that it is then the result of Ben moving the FDW that has caused all these different survivors to land or crash on the island during each of these different energy bursts that occur because the island has not settled itself in time and space as of yet? The future will have changed or molded the past.

Comments.....

Anonymous said...

CFL gave Jin a strange look because he was looking strangely at her. Hers was a look of confusion and maybe apprehension, like 'why are you looking at me that way'.

Rob Rose said...

AS COMPLETELY SHOCKED AS I WAS TO SEE JIN, IN A COMPLETELY OUT OF LEFT FIELD MOMENT!!!!...

I mean come on, how awesome, "Anyone speak French?" and you're like ahh Daneille's people, its her people youre not even really thinking about the person theyre saving and when it was JIN just AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!


that being said... Last week, go back and look for yourself, I noticed that Daniel Dae Kim's name was in the credits for the episode....so i thought we'd be seeing some kind of flashback with him alive last week...but it never came... so i thought it may have been an error and forgot about it... now we know why his name was inn there.


LOVE IT.

Joel said...

The theory that they only jump into a time when new enters the island seems to be holding up this episode...the Ajira air people, the French team, and Aaron!

Joel said...

Also, could Jin & CFL be constants for each other? Maybe that's why she didn't get the 'sickness'

Anonymous said...

Also, could Jin & CFL be constants for each other? Maybe that's why she didn't get the 'sickness'

That is such a good idea, and if it's true, that is such amazing writing by them, something they've managed to do so much of already

Anonymous said...

so was Jin floating in water for 2 years before being found? have our friends been "time skipping" for 2 years?

Patrick Gaughan said...

Hey, we are forgetting why CFL doesn't recognize Jin 17 years later. She isn't allowed to. According to Faraday you don't remember. Only Desmond is special.

And, say she does somehow recognize him. What is she gonna say? I remember meeting one of your people 17 years ago? It would be absurd.

Anonymous said...

Did anyone notice that Canton-Rainier, the name of the company on the side of Ben's van is an anagram for REINCARNATION? Not at all sure how this fits in, but I thought it was too interesting to let slide.

4-8-15-16-23-42 said...

If Juliet has been on the Island "before" as indicated by the recent nosebleed... what if she is in fact Ben's childhood friend Annie?! Remember the cute little girl on the swingset who gave him the handmade doll? He could have saved her & sent her off the Island before the purge!!!

Steve said...

I was always in the Jin is alive camp.Mainly because they were quite ambigous. The date on the stone, etc. It seemed so open for him to be alive. I would have been surprised if he did NOT turn up. I loved that CFL's crew saved him, but as soon as I saw the body, I knew it was jin.

The CFL connection is interesting. Yes, I would think she would have recognized him, but maybe she did. But like Locke not wanting to interfere with his past self, or even that Sawyer not interacting with kate, if time is a string, it didn't happen, so it didn't happen. (creative way of saying that this wasn't planned in season 1 or 2). So CFL didn't say anything to Jin because it would have changed his future.

Patrick: you're not thinking of the right time theory, what happened happened! Desmond is unique in that he can actually make changes. CFL's group always found Jin.

I also want to mention that CFL was pregnant when she came to the island, so the child bearing issue was likely an issue at that time, and reinforces the theory that the issue is with children conceived on the island.

The person who had the 'constant' idea between Jin and CFL is a good idea, but not sure it's right. All a creative way of tying seasons together when the present story didn't exist in season 1 or 2

Nosebleed disease: This is different than the one in the past. We've seen where peoples mind moves through time and has these effects, but it seems that these peoples minds aren't moving, it's a result of them physically moving. I can't help but try to tie the two together.. they couldn't actually be elsewhere in a bed somewhere shifting through time?


I consider it almost a certainty that Miles in Candles baby. and would have to have been there longer than Juliet, but when Candle made his plea in the comicon video, the baby was crying. So how could he have been on the island for more than 2 years? And what is Charlottes connection to the island? Daniel and Charlotte seems to be well aware that she's been on the island before. No one seems to have an issue when he suggests that she's been there the longest so it's affecting her, but when mentioned to miles, he insists he hasn't been on the island before. Daniel and Charlotte know something, and Juliet may as well. Is charlotte too young to be Annie?

Good catch on B612! That's the only 'little prince' reference. But I have a feeling the story may have an influence later on... especially with John having to die, and the 6 fools(for leaving?)

Whew, I think i had some other thoughts, but notice all the good stuff is on the island.

I'll write another for the o6

Steve said...

Now my O6 thoughts:

First, I will say this is not anywhere near an interesting as what's on the island. This is not the same as the, The desmond/mrs hawking storyline, and the idea of HOW to get back.

The o6 bit seems predictable. We KNOW that they'll all go back to the island, I just feel like I'm being drug along wih a story line of how they'll convince everyone to join. Shoot, they're all in the same place(except hurley) at the end of 'Little Prince'.

It's OK, but no where near as interesting as what's happening in the island, or with Eloise Hawking, Desmond, and the HOW to get back to the island.

These are my opinions on the attidude of the O6 about going back.

Jack is 100% on board.

Sun will be easy once she knows Jin is alive. She also has Aaron, at least in this episode. She could also spill some info on Widmore.

Sayid will be somewhat easy, though he's not 100% sold.

Hurley is confused and doesn't know what to do. They'll need to get him out of jail AND convince him to trust Ben.

Kate will be difficult. She feels cornered and trapped by ben for using Aaron against her. She has come to see him as her child, in a way, she's long some perception to the reality of the situation. As we saw on the preview "You're all crazy". Nothing like a woman feeling trapped, especially by someone she doesn't trust to run.. and we know kate is good at running. Getting her will be a challenge over coming episodes. It looks like this will come to a head in about 2 episodes. Which means we may not have to deal much with the o6 next week.

Joe said...

Jin's survival is such a big stretch for so many reasons. i hope they explain it well.

Steve said...

One more thing.. could the French Reseach Boat have been named the 'Little Prince'. I know the asteroid reference, but it seems logical that that this could be the boat name.

I don't remember if we ever knew the name of her boat.

It makes sense: Famous French Story, what do you want to bet that we find out next week that they're boat was named 'Le Petit Prince'.

Steve said...

Jin's survival is not a stretch. I thought it was quite obvious, especiall with the death date of the plane crash and the non committed references to his death. There was a big debate to Jin being alive or dead. I made a big case for him being alive.

- This is NOT the first time that Jin has survived a burning boat and washed up on shore.

- If the island needs you alive, you cannot die. Think of Michaels failed suicides.

- Damon and Carlton were very non committed on the question of whether he was alive or dead in their weekly podcast after that episode.

- The ONLY stretch I see is that I did not think he was within the parameter of the island when the move took place.

- No body, and his Tombstone seemed incomplete. For some reason the date of crash made me very suspicious. With the lie, weren't there two other survivors that didn't make it? If Jin was alive, I would have thought they would have listed his dead as near the time they left the island, not the day of the crash. I know this doesn't make perfect sense, but his death date is what first convinced me he was alive.

Steve said...

One more by me(sorry Brian, I don't mean to fill up your blog space!)

It does appear that time is skipping when people arrive on the island.

1954 - US Military?

Desmond and Faraday at the Hatch: I don't know??? Maybe Juliet?

Claires birth: Could this have been the balloon crash? Or could that be Aarons arrival?

The canoe chase: Someone new from this Indian airline has arrived. Could be the o6.. could be others, could be widmore, could be someone new.

Jins Rescue: The French Research vessel.

Nigerian Plane: Er.. Nigerial Plan Crash

As for the people firing on them... I do think we'll see that later from another perspective, but as to who it is? This is the first jump that appears to take place in the FUTURE. So yes, we'll eventually see what is going on. We'll see what happened with the beachcraft, we'll see who brought that canoe, and we'll see who's firing on them. It may be anyone, but I don't think it's their future selves. It could be ANYONE other than them. If it IS themselves, it's possible that they may be firing not to kill, but knowing the future, they may be trying to get them to shore for whatever reason.

OK, now I've confused myself.

Dave said...

I like the idea of the skips actually causing an event/crsh/entry onto the island - but more from a "scientific" reason, not a plot device.

Why is it that the O6 have to go back to the island, but Michael and Walt do not? That would also include any other survivors that made it to the freightor but died in the expolsion. Why don't they have to go back too?

The O6 seemed to be a random group who happened to be the first off in Frank's copter, but that group could have easily included, Sawyer, Rose, Neal, Claire, etc.

Is it really just Aaron that needs to return, and the other 5 are just part of the process?

wgh said...

Based on the Canton-Rainier = REINCARNATION anagram I'll throw out that Aaron will turn out to be a reincarnation of Locke.

Anonymous said...

Brian, I know that Darlton have set the bar very high but I think you’ve been spoiled by Lost to call that an ‘average’ episode. I thought it was really good. Maybe not a ‘great’ episode but thoroughly entertaining.

If I’m remembering correctly, the freighter was not within the radius when the island moved at the end of season 4 right? If so, does seeing Jin on the Island imply that the island is indeed moving in space as well as time? Or has everyone conceded that already?

VictorC said...

Here's a crazy idea, what if that canoe with the Ajira water bottles was used by the O6 when they return in the future?
I don't think it's very likely, given that they all don't fit in it (especially Hurley). Just sharing a thought.

Anonymous said...

Just one simple question:

Given that time 'flashed' and changed while the survivors were in the canoes, why did the canoe come with them to the next timeframe, but the attackers dissapeared?

Dave said...

In the O6 timeline, 3 years have passed since they left the island.

For those still on the island (including Jin now), it seems as though only a few says have passed - although they have spanned 50 years or more in that time.

When the O6 ultimately return to the island, will they retun in their time, and 3 years will have passed on the island? Or will they have to travel back in time to when they left, and if so, will Arron become an infant again?

But if they go back in time, will that mean that all of the things they are doing now...killing assasins, plotting with Widmore, etc. will never happen or will they happen again.

You can't change the past, but can you change the future?

Steve said...

WHG: Aaron being a reincarnation of the Jacob, or just the 'other' leader makes sense. Look at the test that Alpert gave Locke. This is very similar to the test done for the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama. I don't think you're off, but I don't think it's Locke.

Dave: I think you have it backwards. The way I see it, when outsiders come to the island, it makes a 'scratch' on the 'record'. When the needle on the island record 'skips' it always jumps to one of these scratches. You could call it a bookmark too, but I like the record analogy much better.

My guess is that it was not the donkey wheel that caused the skiping, it's the people who life the island when they weren't supposed to. This make a major 'scratch' on the record which is causing the skip. By bringing the people back, they fix the scratch so time can continue.

Let me add this.. the Frozen Donkey Wheel moved the island in space, and as suggested by Candle, time may be a factor with the orchid too. However,it's the scratch that's causing the skip.
The island just happened to 'move' at the same time that the o6 left the island.. and from the looks of it, they made it out by only a matter of seconds.

Steve said...

Dave: Everything that happened happened.


The odd things about timelines and this time theory. You can't just stop thinking in the present because you have already done this in the past, you're not along for the ride. You HAVE to do what you did in the past, and you'll do it by thinking and doing, but you'll do that naturally because you already did it, you just don't know it yet.

As forfuture? To suggest that our future is predetermined would suggest that we really don't have any free-will. Given that Desmond saw glimpses from the future, it would suggest that all of time already exists. But for the sake of free will, I hope that it can be changed, but for the same of the show, I use Charlie as an example that you can't change the future, only postone the inevitable.

Brett said...

I think Jin could have easily survived the explosion. He knows the ship is going to explode -- when the helicopter takes off, he jumps off the ship, goes as deep underwater as he can get, and waits for the explosion. There were at least 30 seconds or so between takeoff and explosion. Then he surfaces to burning debris - hence the burns on his face. That's what I'd do.

Luke said...

Dave, RE: Walt/Michael

I was talking about this with my wife last night and she threw out the idea that maybe the island no longer needs them. For Walt, I'm not sure if that fits, but at least for Michael, he was told by Jack's dad that it's okay for him to leave/die now, when he was on the freighter.

I am still a little perplexed by the whole Walt storyline, and I hope they don't just leave that alone since he's grown up now. I am keeping faith that they will tie everything together.

Also...I was thinking about something yesterday, and I'm not sure if it's been discussed here or not, but is it possible that the weird whisperings that the islanders have heard throughout the series could be voices from the past/future of people that have passed by? It seemed to have always been thought that it was the Others, but they don't seem to be a supernatural people. Or maybe I've missed something that explains all this already.

Anonymous said...

Twop said it best: The book is about a little boy who leaves his planet to visit a bunch of others, but only finds stupid grown-ups on them, who don't even know basic things -- like that you truly see with your heart; and that you can't own something unless you care for it and it cares for you. The only way the boy can get back to his home planet is to die and leave his body behind.

It's not referring to Aaron (a red herring like his Grandma), but to Locke.

wgh said...

I disagree that Aaron's a "red herring". I think D&C have something special in mind for this kid.

Anonymous said...

wgh.....Clair's mom; not Aron is who Brian suggests may be the 'red-herring'.

Anonymous said...

a few thoughts/commentary....

first, LOST helped break the mold in their story-telling nearly from season #1 with the way flash-backs were used. sometime, after...the way in which they spring the "flashfoward" on us was brilliant and changed the mold and dynamics of story-telling to a large extent. Today, we're dealing with yet another dimension of story-telling with issue of time....both past and future tenses. LOST clearly is the most ambitious show ever shown on network TV and comparable with some of the finest works on cable as well.

Anonymous said...

i think when our survivors looked back at the canoe to see who is chasing them, the images shown to us in the canoe are mysteriously almost cloaked as shadows or silhouettes. i bet even with close scrutiny from you fanatics out there, it will be impossible to discern who these folks are. Why? Good bet we'll find out it's perhaps the survivors themselves or maybe even our O6 group.

Anonymous said...

do we all really think Carole Littleton was a red-hearring? a shear coincedance that she is using the same attorney as Ben Linus uses? hmmmmmm.

Anonymous said...

EASTER EGG ALERT....Rousseau's ship was named BĂ©sixdouze, which translates to "B six twelve." And B612 just happens to be the name of the home asteroid once inhabited by The Little Prince.

Dean said...

I've also speculated that the voices were the time travelling Survivors. It's hard to tell, but there was one clearing in last night's episode that sure looked like the clearing where one of the Others 'appeared' out of nowhere.

Dave said...

I agree that "everything that happened - happened" But that uses the past tense. Is it also true that everything that has happened will happen?

This week, we see action occuring circa 2004 on the island (as well as other years before and after, I'm not sure) and other action occuring 3 years or so later (call it current day).

Take any event that happened in the current day - Desmond visiting Oxford for example. Will that same event happen if Desmond and/or the O6 return (in time) to the island?

Anonymous said...

the scene with Sawyer witnessing Kate...back in the 'ol days....delivering Aron was a heart string puller! really moving and great acting by Halloway with no dialogue needed!

Anonymous said...

Dean - http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Whisper_transcripts

view transcripts

timcourtois said...

1. How will Ben convince Kate to come along? How about, "Hey Kate, Claire is alive, & Aaron needs to be returned to his real mother."

2. How is Jin alive? Here's how: He was standing on the very edge of the boat. Go back & watch the scene: the place where he was standing did not explode, but he wasn't standing there any longer. He jumped, or was thrown off.

3. Where did the freighter wreckage go? It was not in the "warp radius" of the island, nor could the O6 see it from their helicopter after the island disappeared. Something's fishy...

Di said...

I kind of like the idea that the survivors skipping causes a disturbance which leads to a crash (or something) that lands new people on the Island. I can also see Steve’s backwards view—new people arriving leaves a “scratch” which then “catches” the survivors instead of allowing them to skip past. I think I like the former, causal idea better, though. However, it is also true that the simple fact of the Island moving in space can cause crashes—it could materialize under the Black Rock (this really seems to need to be true, to explain why the ship is in the center of the Island). With the Nigerian plane, an Island cliff may have suddenly materialized in front of it, causing it to crash. No magnetic disturbance needed.

The Island moving in space being a separate phenomenon from the survivors beginning to skip in time is also an interesting theory. I would explain it like this: When the Island moved, it effectively cut off the O6 from the remaining survivors, (so the O6 “left” at that point) and maybe that caused those remaining on the Island to get unstuck in time.

I’ve been wondering if perhaps babies could never be born on the Island and the Island has long had a pattern of gaining new inhabitants by collecting them in various ways—ship wrecks, canoe crashes, and now plane crashes. It would explain the various accents. But then maybe only some are assimilated (why it would choose to keep young Widmore, I have no idea). I might guess that the Island doesn’t want anyone coming to the Island deliberately (like Dharma).

My theory about why the O6 “weren’t supposed to leave” has to do with Desmond repeatedly saving Charlie, which he could do after he became “special” and started having flashes. The Island did eventually “course correct” and Charlie ended up dead, so like Mrs. Hawking said, Desmond could not ultimately avert that death. BUT, Charlie remaining alive longer allowed him to do something he would not otherwise have done—he disabled the jamming at the Looking Glass. This, in turn, allowed the O6 to leave—which perhaps they would not have done, had not Desmond tried to alter Charlie’s death. My point is, the universe caught up with Charlie, but it has not yet caught up with the O6.

Anonymous said...

I don't think that Brian meant aaron was a red herring.. but that Claires mother was. Meant to distract Kate. A diveresion. Aaron is definately more.

wgh said...

My "red herring" comment was re. anonymous @12:54.

Steve said...

Di: I don't think the 'time skipping' causes crashes makes much sense. I just think it make a lot more sense the other way around.

I don't think you quite got what I was saying.

I was saying that when flight 815 crashed, it caused a 'scratch' in time.. and when the island was sent into 'skipping through time', it catches on these scratches.

OK, I'll put it this way. imagine you have a book. This book is all of time. When someone enters the island from the outside, a bookmark is placed at the point in which they entered.

When the O6 left, that was NOT what was supposed to happen, so it sort of broke the book of time, so now time is skipping between these bookmarked pages, and won't stop until the error in time(o6 leaving) is corrected.

My question is, why is it only the people who have come to the island that are skipping? Is cindy skipping? How about all the others that were brought to the island from the outside. If they don't skip, then why is Juliet? I can justify why people like the CFL won't jump, because they weren't on the island when the book of time 'broke'. And who knows, maybe others ARE jumping through time.

jon said...

Good episode! Not mindblowing but good.

I like the idea that the canoes and the folks firing could be the O6 firing warning shots for some reason.

The straighest plot line from here: the remainers go to the orchid, locke leaves by turning the FDW, that in turn throws back the remainers to a much older time where they stay for some time, endure hardships (like losing a toe...) but get popular(statue...)

I agree that the explanation for how Jin can miraculously be still alive will have to be pretty damn good. The island won't let you die-defences seems weak here. The boat friggin' exploded! That's hard to get away from. I guess that they'll have to go with Jin jumping ship in the last moment and somehow surving the explosion and fire that way. Not so convining but that's is the only way, isn't it?

Finally, all you anonymous above (assuming that it isn't all one fellow) please write a name. It's easier to reply and makes the comments thread more personal. Just make up a name if you don't want to use your own.

Anonymous said...

jon,

are you the blog umpire? lol jk mate

singhy said...

Brian, great post as usual, please can you do me a favour? Please don't mention anything about next week's episode from its preview - I always hate watching previews / finding out about episodes in advance (admittedly this means I can read less of your blog - sorry - but its only because you're always spot on!).

However things like already knowing that Ben knows Jin is alive (and hence how the Ocean 6 scene is going to play out) is the kind of thing I'd rather see in next week's episode - sorry!

But great post again, thanks.

Renee said...

Keep posting your previews Brian.
Some of us can't wait for them!
:)

Lizzy said...

O.K., so I was thinking that it was too coincidental that Claire's mom and Ben had the same lawyer, so what about this...
The reason that Claire's mom chose that lawyer is because he is the one who represneted/ arranged the adoption when Claire was going to place her baby for adoption. Then he would have been the one to arrange her travel plans to L.A., thus placing her on flight 815!! If he is working for Ben that would show that Ben was working to get Aaron to the Island all along!!!

Anonymous said...

Ben saying jin is alive was on scenes from next weeks episode at the end of the show. . most everyone watches this and it will probably be in the comercials.

Anonymous said...

do we know much about Aaron's father " Thomas "? If Aaron does end up being "special" to the island then shouldn't he have some connection to it?...Maybe his father "Thomas" has a connection to the island.

Anonymous said...

My thought on the people in the boat that were firing upon Locke, Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, Daniel, and Charlotte...
That flash took them to a time when the camp was there. Everyone seems to be assuming that it is in the present. Why couldn't that be in the future? The camp would still be there. Those boats could be from some future group that also gets stranded on the island. There is no indication that this is back in 2004-2005. It could be 2006 or later. Maybe this group will resurface and become significant later?

S said...

Re: Singhy and trailer discussion.

I agree. I know that previously trailers have been addressed as "fair game". A lot of us don't see them automatically because we're watching outside of the U.S.

I think it's fair enough to discuss them but maybe post a warning first for those of us that don't want to be exposed?

Anonymous said...

thomas could be widmore's son....
look: http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/e/ea/1x10-3x08-thomas-painting.jpg

Anonymous said...

with Jin....I hope they show a flash-back scene showing the boat explosion from his perspective. Then and only then can we best learn how Jin managed to survive the initial blast.

Duncyo said...

the only thing blows up my head -> let's say Jin jumped into the water and was swimmung towards the island.. while the helicopter was flying towars the island -> the helicopter was out of the time-jump-radius ->> how did Jin speedup "a little bit" so he was in the radius?

jbug said...

IF Jin was standing on the edge and the middle exploded - it is possible (theoretically) that he could have been blasted in the direction of the island a significant distance. Something tells me the writers will have something more creative in store for us than "he jumped off the shiP.

Steve said...

Watch the boat explosion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD4fcdCtD2Y

The explosion was in the middle,a nd Jin was chasing the helicopter. The last we see him was just before the helipad, but If my wife were leaving on the helicopter, I would have ran to the end of the boat. If you watch the video, you'll see the area with the helipad does NOT explode and it is never a part of the fireball. Jin would be on a singking ship, and probably the only person who was clear of the explosion. I saw this last year, my thoughts likely confirmed. I just don't know how he would get back within the radius of the island.

As for surviving. Jin WAS a fisherman. And he did survive the raft disaster back at the beginning of season 2.

Anon: You're not the only one that thinks the raft chase is in the future: From my earlier post:

"As for the people firing on them... I do think we'll see that later from another perspective, but as to who it is? This is the first jump that appears to take place in the FUTURE."

Anonymous said...

Steve - i agree with all you wrote and feel the directors showed us an arial view of the freightor exploding last season for a reason...to give us perspective on where the explosion initiated and where Jin ran towards. This may help make him surviving more plausible.

On a related note, how do anyone explain the timelines that is occuring on the island and off the island? in other words, the O6 have been off island now for 3 years. Does that mean our surivors have been skipping on the island for 3 years time? Does that mean that Jin has been floating in the ocean for 3 years time?

Anonymous said...

Did anyone else notice that, when Sawyer went to investigate where the screaming was coming from, the very first dialogue he over heard was Kate saying (something along the lines of) "You can't stop what is about to happen".

I thought that was a nice little touch.

Anonymous said...

Anon , thomas could be widmore's son....
look: http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/e/ea/1x10-3x08-thomas-painting.jpg....


Very cool!

Smaelb said...

I think Jin came back to the island...on a shark. That would be a great joke, maybe too bold, but Darlon always says they re trying to avoid to jump the shark :)

About who's skipping and who's not, we still have to see the temple,and maybe if you get there, you become an "Other" and then escape the time skipping? Not so sure about that but it's possible.

I really think that Locke won't be able to get out of the island via the Orchid, there would be so many consequences. There has to be another way, the quick one Alpert and Tom used (that seems to rule the submarine out). Can't wait for the life & death of jeremy bentham episode..

Anonymous said...

Who is thomas?

Anonymous said...

Kate will return to the island because Ben will blackmail her. Hence his reveal that the lawyer is his, and the fact that the lawyer is also Aarons grandmas lawyer. Ben will say to kate "return to the island with Aaron or i will be forced to disclose the information I know to his closest biological relative", not knowing that Jack is Aarons half uncle. Now the only question is how does he convince Hurley to go back with him? Sun is easy, just tell her about Jin being alive, although what about their baby still in Korea?

Anonymous said...

Why is no one saying that Kate will go back to the island, because Ben tells her Sawyer survived and her relationship with Jack fell apart?

Also, I like the thought that the skipping occurred because Desmond saved Charlie long enough to allow freighter contact and allow the O6 to escape. At that point, Michael and Walt were already gone and would explain why they don't need to come back. The question does become does Desmond ahve to go back too?

-BW

Anonymous said...

let be reminded that Ben is all knowing! no doubt that he's aware of Jack's biological connection to Aron.

if or when he get Sun to agree to go back, what happens to her ties with Whitmore? does she become a 'double agent'? hard to figure.

as for Hurley, it would seem he can easily be convinced to go back if he is made to understand his friends will die if he refuses. this character has always been developed to reflect the moral underpinnings of the group and island and won't quickly turn his back on his friends.

As for Kate...a bit confusing for her to return given how Claire's spirit keeps telling her to never take him back there. Out of concern for him, don't you think she'd be near impossible to convince to go?

Speaking of Claire....when will we learn how and when she died? we all assume she was shot by one of the freightor guys but nothing was shown at that time. Thoughts?

hobbes said...

It's a moot point but I think Faraday said "street" rather than "string".

Steve - you definitely touched on something there. From the perspective of the time skippers it's happening all from their "present" point of view. But really the writers could have kept the same traditional character flashback format and for example told the Jughead story from a flashback perspective of someone like Richard. (Well John I remember when "I" first met you).

As for the O6, their POV just happens to be three years later. The difference in "preset" POV is really not that big a deal. It will only matter when in trying to synchronize the two groups back together (ie, Ms.Hawking's Event Window). I would suspect however that yes the O6 could indeed be three years older than the skippers when they are finally all reunited.

If you take into account for example, the twin paradox time travel - proven theory. It's easy to get your head around it (the time differences between the two groups of survivors). What I mean by that, is take astronauts and what happens to them when they spend a considerable amount of time orbiting the planet. They are in fact "time travelers". Because the longer they actually spend in orbit and the closer to the speed of light they travel than we do down here. Even though the difference is maybe nano-seconds they are in fact younger then the rest of us stuck here on earth. They have in fact traveled to the future. I know, I know, the whole "time is relative" thing can give you a headache.


As for the question about Cindy, the kids, and the other "taken" survivors. Perhaps they are in the Temple, safe/shielded from the effects of the flashes.

Peter said...

Ok I'll just throw this out as a possible way that Jin survives. If we start at the point that Jin has survived the explosion. Jin climbs on to the board the Island jumps in space/time but the helicopter and Jin do not. However as a result of the Island jumping there is a current as the water flows back into the space left by the Island. Jin floating with the current moves closer to where the Island was. At some point with the Island jumping it reappears at a point in time that Jin is floating on the board and when the Island jumps to now takes Jin along with it.

Not sure how I like this reason but it at least explains how Jin starts jumping along with the Island when the O6 do not. Let me know what you think

Leadfoot said...

What ever happened to:

1) the Dharma shark?
2) Claire?
3) Rose/Bernard?
4) Remember all that talk about the "bad twin"?
5) Cindy and those kids?
6) Smokey?

Anonymous said...

I'm pretty sure Daniel said time was like a 'stream' rather than 'string' or 'street'.

I think it's fairly obvious from a dramatic point of view that we'll view our island survivors on their current timeline (from when the O6 left) and we view the O6 in the future, but the big shock will be when the O6 return after their time off the island, and we, as viewers, haven't seen this far in future.

From the way Locke/Ben have explained or implied things, I don't believe flaming arrows etc are that disasterous. I think there's something bigger coming, which I believe we'll see in the season finale when the O6 return - though I kind of agree with Brian that I don't want the 'off-island' O6 story dragging on for a whole season

Craig

Anonymous said...

Regarding the previews discussion--I think the point was that the preview for the next episode should not be discussed in the posts reacting to/analyzing the previous episode.

amber said...

"On a related note, how do anyone explain the timelines that is occuring on the island and off the island? in other words, the O6 have been off island now for 3 years. Does that mean our surivors have been skipping on the island for 3 years time? Does that mean that Jin has been floating in the ocean for 3 years time?"

Remember when Faraday did his rocket experiment? The time passing off the island (the freightor) wasn't equal to the time passing ON the island. I assume that applies to this situation as well, & is probably why we ever saw that scene to begin with.

"Speaking of Claire....when will we learn how and when she died? we all assume she was shot by one of the freightor guys but nothing was shown at that time. Thoughts?"

Well, Claire was inside of a house that exploded, so I think that's when people think she died. She acted weird after that, even though she appeared to still be alive. Personally, I don't think she's dead, but I think I'm in the minority on that one.


As far as Jin being in the radius of the island, why are you assuming he wasn't in the radius? Because the helicopter wasn't? Maybe the air wasn't included in the radius.

I really think Jin survived the boat explosion because it wasn't time for him to die. Who knows, but as much as we go along with on this show, I don't think believing Jin survived a boat explosion is that far fetched...

Don said...

I just had a crazy thought:

Remember back in "...And Found" when Jin and Eko hid in the jungle while a group of very savage-looking others walked by. Several of them were children and one -- presumably Zach -- was carrying a mutilated teddy bear.

But then remember in "Stranger in a Strange Land" when Cindy came by to see Jack and Zach and Emma -- and Zach's teddy bear -- were all fine.

This never made any sense to me. Why did was Zach's teddy bear so damaged already? Did they give him a new one later? Did they give him a fake one then to make him seem more savage? etc.

But now with our survivors skipping through time (presumably along with the tail-section survivors like Cindy, Zach, and Emma) is it possible that we were seeing a Zach and Emma from the future flashing back? If so, it seems like they're in for a hard time between then and now.

Is this possible? If so, it might be the one solid "See, they've had it planned all along." moment we've all been waiting for.

Kelly said...

Ooh... Don, I love that idea. Those guys have been in the back of my mind for awhile....

Rebecca said...

Here's a crazy thought. Will our skippers skip ahead to time after Locke has gone back for the O6 and if so would Locke 'remember' what he did off island when they skipped again & were all together? (Not everyone together, just the skippers) Not sure if this is even making sense.