Wednesday, February 25, 2009

"The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham" Instant Reactions!

Brian's Three Word Review: Rushed But Functional

Even though we got an extra six minutes for the episode, I feel like we needed another sixty to get the full story of Locke's time off the Island. Although we got all the "necessary scenes" of Locke interacting with the Oceanic Six to complete the storyline, they all pretty much played out like we expected without any huge surprises... and all were condensed into three minute scenes. If this is the only time we'll see Locke's off-Island escapades (which I'm assuming), I guess I'm a little confused by some of the reactions we saw in the aftermath of Locke dying (being murdered!)

For example, I know that Jack was being "haunted" by visions of his dead father, telling him the same stuff about "going back to the Island" that Locke told him... but why would Jack finding out about Locke's "suicide" lead him to nearly committing suicide himself? Kate's visit with Locke seemed pretty friendly, yet she slapped Jack and freaked out when he attempted to say his name at the airport in the Season Three Finale / Season Four Premiere. It was probably just a plot device to keep the identity of the person in the coffin a mystery - but looking back on it now, it doesn't really seem to mesh well together.

But I nitpick. This was still a great episode, with a lot of stuf to digest. Most importantly, it advanced the storyline like it needed to do, allowing us to get to the "good stuff" that hasn't happened yet on the Island, rather than focusing on telling the story of what already happened off the Island.

Here's what we need to discuss:

Time. Even though everyone is back on the Island, it looks like our characters aren't quite all "back together" yet. It just wouldn't be Lost without flashes between multiple storylines / timelines, would it? Here's what it's looking like:

1970's - Jin, Sawyer, Juliet, Jack, Kate, Hurley
2008 - Locke, Ben, Sun, Sayid, Frank

(Why did some skip and others did not? You've got me!)

Futhermore, we've got all these new Ajira Survivors on Alcatraz (note: they didn't land on the "runway" - which was a pretty ridiculous theory when you think about it). Personally, I am SHOCKED that the airplane actually crashed on the Island. The "skip" of our Survivors out seemed like a much cleaner storyline to me. But what would Lost be without super complicated storylines?

Lastly, Caesar and Ilana may have sketchy backgrounds (it's Lost - everyone does!), but as of now, it's not looking like either are actually Outcast Others or working with Ben.

Ben. There's a chance the writers are just really setting us up for a huge surprise when we find out Ben is a "good guy" in the end - but if they are, they're doing one hell of a job. Once again,this week's episode made Widmore seems like the good guy, Ben seems like the bad guy - BIG TIME. We can now confirm that he has pretty much lied about everything off the Island (intentionally lying to Sun about Jin being alive, MURDERING John Locke, killing Abaddon, etc.) I know Lost is all about blurring the line between good and evil, but it seems pretty obvious right now. Ben is one bad dude.

There's also the question about motive. Upcon learning (or confirming) that Locke was working with Widmore / Ms. Hawking, Ben killed him - as if he was an "opposing side" in the "war". However, he worked to accomplish the same goal as Widmore - getting the Oceanic Five back to the Island, even going so far as to work with Ms. Hawking, which Widmore would have done as well (so it seems). So what's the deal with this war?

Widmore. So we confirmed this week that Widmore used to be the leader of the Others (who he just calls "his people") - at least in his mind, until Ben tricked him into leaving the Island. Apparently Widmore was in charge of his people for over three decades, putting him in charge from 1954 to at least 1984... and maybe right up until the Purge, when Ben took over. This makes us question the logic of Alpert reaching out to Ben in the first place. Was he dissatisfied with Widmore as a leader, and thought that Ben could do a better job? Only to find out that Ben sucked too, leading him to reach out to Locke?

According to Widmore, "A war is coming, and if you're not back on the Island when that happens, the wrong side is going to win." As well as stating that he is "deeply invested in the future of the Island." 


Abaddon. I guess we all should have seen this coming, given that Abaddon is currently starring on another show on another network (in fact, I guess we were lucky Fox let him do this episode in the first place). According to Abaddon, he gets people where they need to go... and now we understand how and why Abaddon was in the rehab center with Locke back in the day. Since Widmore met Locke at the age of 17, once he "grew up" and got "tricked" off the Island, he probably was on the lookout for this "John Locke" character - and sent Abaddon after him to ensure he ends up on the Island (although, again - if you can't change the past, there was really nothing to worry about, right?)

Third Boat. This episode seems to confirm that the Skipping Survivors killed one of the Ajira Survivors, who chased after them when they suddenly appeared - but who? The good news is, with "the Pilot and a girl" taking the third boat (who I assume is Frank and Sun), they seem to be safe. This leaves Ben, Locke, Caesar, Ilana, or some stranger as the potential casualty of Juliet's return fire. 

Walt. I hate to say it, but I think we're done with the Walt storyline. Locke said "he's already been through enough" and seemed to make the executive decision to spare him from any future trama with returning to the Island. If Locke is indeed the future leader, I think he'd have the authority to make such a decision, just like Ben could decide that Michael and Walt were allowed to leave the Island. Although, it's scary forshadowing that Walt talked about having visions of Locke in a suit being chased by people (or something along those lines). It doesn't seem like it's going to be an easy return to the Island for Locke.


So the big question is - where do we go from here? If we have half of our characters in the "present" (2008) and half in the past (1970's), it looks like Faraday working to get our characters back into the proper timeline will indeed be the major storyline to carry the rest of the season. As for characters like Desmond, Walt, and Aaron? I'm afraid they're going to be delegated to the background for now. I have a hard time believing the writers will juggle a THIRD storyline , location, and timeline in the mix right now... but again, Lost thrives on super-complicated multiple storylines - so you never know. I would bet they are bigger players next season than this one. 

Holy crap - that was basically a full analysis of the episode. My bad. I'll try to think of something new to write for the analysis :)

70 comments:

Anonymous said...

few thoughts

Helen died on 4/8

you have Sawyer in both time groups...mistake or no?

Brian said...

Fixed.

Thank you.

Andrew said...

while driving home from my friend's house I was asking myself the same question about the different time periods and why some people flashed and some didn't. It's pretty obvious why Ben didn't he's on Team Ben not Team Island (whatever that means anymore). But why resurrect Locke and separate the Oceanic 5 who had to get back to save everyone else. I was wondering why you think that Sayid and Sun are not back in the past with jack,kate, hurley.
ben is a bad dude. talks Locke out of killing himself only to choke him right after. so freaking wrong. was it because he knew locke had to die to come back once he uttered eloise's name, or was it just because he now had the information he needed and no longer had need for locke.

Brian said...

If you watched the preview for next week's episode, you'll know why I assume that Sun and Sayid are in 2008 with Locke and Ben... but I'm not allowed to talk about the episode previews without people freaking out - so you'll just have to trust me for now :)

Andrew said...

oh gotcha. we got stuck slow motioning on a different part of the preview so i think i missed that part. cool.

VictorC said...

Great episode, and I loved seeing my homeland of Dominican Republic on my favorite show. Sayid's Spanish wasn't bad at all either!

So what made Ben change his mind from "must help you" to "you must die," was it the mention of Ms. Hawking?

Walt telling Locke he had dreams of him in the island with a suit on surrounded by people that want to hurt him was a vision of the future, Locke better watch himself.

CJ said...

The whole business about a coming war and the way the two sides are being drawn is reminding me again of Stephen King's "The Stand"--isn't that one of the books mentioned previously as having some influence on LOST?

Also, I loved the building ambiguity about which one is the good guy/bad guy between Charles and Ben. Of course it's still possible that they are NEITHER, but after this episode Ben really is looking sooooo evil.

I can't wait to get back to Sawyer and Miles for a little comedy relief.

Bea said...

It seemed like Ben's reason for NOT killing Locke was that he needed him alive in order to get back to the island. Once Locke mentioned Eloise Hawking, he was no longer necessary.

Which leaves us without much idea of what the motive FOR killing Locke was. Hatred? Revenge? Fulfillment of destiny? A means of manipulating Jack? Or was it somehow important that Locke be a murder victim rather than a suicide?

Rob Rose said...

Okay Brian, here's a few things as far as I seen tonight, compared to what you said:

1. I think its been implied that Jack has not actually been haunted by his father, out-right,atleast and here's why: When Jack saw his dad last season, he seemed to almost be expecting it, but when was distracted by that woman and looked back and he was gone, he seemed extremely shook up and asked for a perscription to...whatever drug he became addicted to. I've been under the impression the reason he took and became addicted to that drug is because he took them to SUPRESS those visions of his father, and probably somewhat succeeded in that, believing himself to be delusional. But now here comes Locke outta nowhere in his hospital talking about how they have to go back and saying he spoke to his father.. although he screamed at Locke in defiance, between the Month of that visit and Locke's death Jack began tha habit of taking planes hoping they crash... deep down, he was finally starting to believe Locke, and when he found out he had died it probably pushed him over the edge and left him with nothing. Kate never actually refuses to say Locke's name she simply says "You come here and hand me a obituary for JEREMY BENTHAM!" which was true. Sayid is the one who refuses to call him John, although he only says that once, until Hurley makes him admit only a short while later (granted after we found out it was Locke)

2. By the way, with the Plane crashing the way it did (Apparently no one was killed and it is completely intact, very Miracle on the Hudson-esque) I have to remind you who was piloting the plane in Frank Lapidus,.. who said himself he knew they weren't going to Guam, so I'm sure he was fully expecting a crash landing... but more importantly, just one quote from him comes to mind, which is when Jack asks Frank wher eth Helicopter crashed last year and Frank replied "What kind of Pilot do you think am I?.. I put it down safely right over there"

3. Widmore was probably the one who ordered the purge based on Ben's comments to Hurley last year at the Dharma Grave... remember? "Their leader"

4. As far as why Ben killed him, you said he only killed him after learning he was working for Widmore/Hawkins making him an enemy... NOT TRUE Ben killed Locke once Locke told Ben how to get back to the island? See... THATS why Ben stopped John from killing himself.. so he could find out how to get back to the island himself. Once John told him to go to Hawkin's THATS when he killed him... Just my look at it.

5. WALT. Is it over, because John said He had already been through enough?... Nope. Because the real answer is what John says only second later. Abbadon questions Locke's decision by saying "Maybe you didn't understand but arent you supposed to bring them all back?" and Locke replies by saying he only needs to convince one, and they WILL All come back. So what Locke really meant wasnt that WALT wasn't needed but rather, he decided not to burden a 13/14 year old boy, which the big "YOU HAVE TO COME BACK" speech.. after realizing his father had died on the Freighter and Walt didn't know.
Rather, he would let Walt go, but have faith that after convincing one of them Walt would find his way. Remember... eventually Walt WILL have to learn the truth about his father... if he doesnt already know.

6. AARON I've always believed that Aaron's role in this series would never truly come to a head until the final year. So I think that we will find out where he is by the end of the season, but I don't think we'll realize how important he is until next season.

7 I think I just ran outta stuff... other than I truly hope that Abbadon's "YOU'LL OWE ME ONE" and his whole character itself wasn't killed off simply because he's on another show, because I think they had intended to take that somewhere, but theres a chance they decided to Nix that, which would be a shame. Personally i had always thought that it would be revealed that Abbadon was the former LEADER of the others, and thats how he knew about Mistah Locke and was so interested in the future of the Island


...wow.. you'd think I had my own blog or something haha

Anonymous said...

"note: they didn't land on the "runway" - which was a pretty ridiculous theory when you think about it"

the plane didn't crash. how big of a runway could they have built? Locke was looking out at the main island.
I think Lapidus SAW the runway and did his best to land on it, hence the reason the plane is still intact

Anonymous said...

Yeah -- it kinda looked like the plane landed/crashed right around pavement. So I don't think that theory was crazy at all.

Leadfoot said...

Aside from clues like the old Dharma van and Dharma uniforms, how do we know who is in what timeline?

Every other person on that beach could be in a different timeline -- but all still be on the beach together. For example. If the people counted off even-odd, and you had 5 even and 5 odd -- the evens could be in 2009 and the odds could be in 1978, and they could still be all there on the same beach -- standing right next to each other at the same time. Well, not literally at the "same time" -- but concurrently. So if a stranger walked out of the jungle and saw them -- he would have no way of knowing those 10 people were in two different times and/or which group was in which time. So how can we really know?

Does that make any sense? Haha.

David said...

Episode Reactions- The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham
(edited from a chat with DocArzt's Blog)

Nice proper new character intro scene (Caesar in the Hydra on Alcatraz Island)
Ilena is next and then they add Reiko Aylesworth soon.

So Locke has gone "Back To The Future", Jedi Style?

Crashed 316 Lying in the mud - I got the crash I was missing last week.
Other Other Locke Others?

Maybe D&C meant "the episode order makes more sense" because 316 wreckage scene comes after the 316 flash scene
(since the episodes 316/TLADOJB aired in reverse order)

Locke is the new Indiana Jones. Finally some Tunisia, without crystal skulls
"Your parents had a sense of humor naming you".
Give him some McCutcheon, Widmore, he's got more work to do.
At least Locke was not run over by a car.

Locke's travelogue scenes played out like an episode of Six Degrees! (his off Island meet-ups)

It's been way too long, but Walt got a great scene again.
With enough money and resources... Widmore gets Locke a driver to take him to anyone!
Abbadon works with Widmore. Tricked by Ben into island exile.

Widmore being called on his "Boatload of C4" and changing the subject was priceless.

"The camera is at the EXIT." so matter of fact, I chuckled
So the island is fixed opposite tunisia because the hatch is still operational and holding the island?

Where is Sun? We know about the ring, so I guess that is her proxy.

Easily called Ben as the gunman. Now show him being served that beatdown!
Did he just provoke a beating to make himself authentically late to flight 316 as Hurley's proxy?

Can't wait till we know why Hurley came to the plane. A visit from Ghost Charlie? Sayid? (not Ben!)

Abbadon, Caesar & Sayid should get a spinoff action show and Kill The Economist.

Heidi Shadows said...

Abaddon= name for the Devil (Rev. 9:11) or hell

THAT IS INSANE. the name was bugging me so i looked it up on the mac dictionary

man think of the ramifications.

Anonymous said...

am i the only one thinking that LOST need 7 seasons or 8... they going too fast.. doesnt make sense...

Anonymous said...

Is it me or did the timeline during Locke's return seem very odd?

He returns, sees Sayid who is working on homes in DR. Sayid seems not the assassin type, yet somewhat recently after his girlfriend's murder, he starts working for Ben. Then, Locke gets in the car accident (and obviously still recent from his warp from the island based on his leg in a cast - 9 weeks to 2 months from a compound fracture) and sees Jack, who is just starting to sport the beard.

Then, the man tries to hang himself, gets stopped, Ben strangles him... obituary would be published within a week of the discovery and his body wouldn't be long at the mortuary (1 week tops)... and Jack has Old Man Rivers beard?!?!

No no no, something isn't right here.

Steve said...

I want to take credit for calling that the plane crashed in the present! See? this is a "I WAS RIGHT" moment. The water bottles were an obvious clue.. and as long ago suggested by Brian, that the people in the other boat are from the Airline crash.

I'm no sure that Sayid and Sun are in the past. All I know is that Frank and a woman took a boat... but what woman?

It would make sense that Sayid and Sun would jump to the past... as they 'should' have been on the island when the flashes began.

Locke however, WAS, on the island, but jumped out of the flashes to a time rather recently(in present terms) in Tunisia. Since he WAS flashing and left, he is probably back in realtime like Ben.

I'm convinced that neither Ben or Widmore is a good guy... they're both bad.. and it's all a feud. But it's obvious to me that Ben only saved John to find out his contact info of Ms. Hawking. Once that info was there, he went on with the murder. Apparently, Hawkings convinces him that Locke is needed.. but I don't think he knew that he had to die.

And all this goes back to when Locke told Alpert that he would be by the plane, shot by Ethan. He hasn't seen Alpert. So it's obvious that with Locke alive on the island in the present, he'll tell Alpert about his being murdered, his resurrection, and about being shot by Ethan.

Yes, I saw the preview, but it could be Ben may have gone back.

Steve said...

As for the previews, Brian, this is your site. You may be trying to please all the people... but don't let a small minority of readers influece your long standing policies at the expence of the vast majority. Are you being politically correct about these previews?

Anonymous said...

but who's boats were on the beach?

Anonymous said...

i entirely agree that the writting seemed to not show any compelling reason why Jack would become crazed and driven to return to the Island. I wonder if we'll ever see any more back-story depicting Christian somehow convincing Jack he made a mistake and must return.

Bubbles said...

where was aaron in this episode? i thought he was listed as a guest star?

Anonymous said...

Any ideas on who convinced Hurley to get on the 316 flight? Maybe one of the island's ghosts? If so who?

Party of 5 said...

It's a true battle of good vs evil... and I have no idea whose side to root for, or who is on which side! Excellent writing and dramatic twists. Love this amazing show!! And I love your blog and tell all my confused friends to come here for excellent thought provoking analysis that helps explain what's going on!

Ben said...

Maybe I got this wrong, but I thought Ben didn't go pshyco until he learned that Jin was alive. How did he even know he had died? Who has Ben been talking to? I guess he could have talked to Sayid about it.

I got it. Ben knows Jin from Dharma days. Maybe by another name. and when he heard he survived he realized that Jin was actually Jin SecurityGuard.

Rebecca said...

When I realized Ben was going to kill Locke I was surprised. It was creepy watching him stage & clean up the scene. I wonder if he had planned it since walking in or only after finding out Locke knew more than he did? OR did Ben kill Locke for the greater good, knowing Alpert told Locke he'd have to die to bring the O6 back, that Locke would be the stand in for Christian in getting back to the island and that he would be alive and well at the end? It will be interesting to see how he talks himself out of that one. Also, I want to see Claire's reaction to Aaron not being with Kate, if we see her this season. I can't wait for next week!

Rebecca said...

Also, I didn't catch that those on Alcatraz were in 2008...but was wondering why no Dharma people were in or around those buildings, makes sense now. Well, as much sense as time travel/skipping/etc can. ;)

JP said...

brian,

what makes u think that the losties are separated by timeline? we saw jin, kate, hurley, and jack. last time we saw jin he met up with sawyer. also jin was wearing a dharma uniform and a brand new van which seems to indicate that jin is in the past along with faraday. we still haven't seen sun, frank, or sayid. now is the big war when the purge happens? But thats the reason i lurk on your blog, to see what u think. heh.

VictorC said...

Great points there Rob Rose.

Did anybody notice some of those pages that Caesar was looking at looked like the pages of Faraday's notebook?

And I just remembered that this is the second time Ben attempts to kill Locke, only this time he actually succeeded.

Anonymous said...

I too am a little distracted by the timing issues. Lock is still in his cast when he dies and now I'm imagining the mashing on of Christian's old shows onto Locke and thinking of the post-mortem damage to the leg even for a dead guy.

I also question the ability to land the plane flat on its belly from 30000 feet above unless it was more sucked down in whole than landed normally.

I hope we get more clarity on why Ben decided to kill Locke after all and if UD will be able to adjust enough without Lowery.

Anonymous said...

JP....i think given that the office where the crash survivors were looking at the Dharma files appeared long abandoned.

where Jin (Kate, Jack & Hurley) are, the VW van appears new and apparently, in the scene we were shown last week, it certainly appears Dharma is alive and well implying the time is many years back. you agree?

Leadfoot said...

I think what JP is saying (and I agree), is that just because JIN is obviously in the past, doesn't mean Jack/Hurley/Kate crashed into the past.

J/H/K could have crashed in 2009, and just run into 1978 Jin.

Or does it not work that way?

Anonymous said...

I think Ben killed Locke for one of 2 reasons...Either A.) Ben wants his place back ont he Island as leader or B.) Locke had to die for all of this to happen, but not by suicide.

Anonymous said...

Widmore wanted the Oceanic Five on the island WITHOUT BEN! I don't think Ben had a clue how to get to the island for three years. He couldn't get back to the island so he just fulfilled his second wish: get back at Widmore while watching the 6 in hope. Then Locke shows up and starts contacting the people he's watched for three years. Once he confronts Locke and gets the info he needs to get back to the island, he doesn't need Locke alive so he kills him to take his place and provide an impetus to get Jack on board.

Also, Ben is eeeeeeeevil. Called that long ago. Widmore isn't necessarily 'good', but I bought his explanation for attacking Ben in the Dharma camp. I'd assume anyone their was eeeeeeevil too.

Anonymous said...

hey Anon....in the assumption you lay out, why then would Richard Alpert and Christian Sheppard also verify to John that he needs to die in order to save the island? it just seems that the idea of Locke needing to die is well established with folks other than Ben alone.

Anonymous said...

i just want to hint about this lost site: http://www.spotep.com/#serieid=lost

Anonymous said...

Richard/Christian are all-knowing and essentially seem to know Locke's destiny and not necessarily the means that make his destiny become reality ..make sense? ... they know he needs to die for the plan to come to fulfillment ... but they don't necessarily know how it will happen. I think that after watching Ben kill Locke for the 2nd time - he is pure evil, there doesn't seem to be too much to debate.
I don't think that Ben himself could return to the island - therefore he kills John to use as his bait to get the others involved and onboard ... John and the Oceanic 6 need to go back, but I'm not so sure about benny boy!

Anonymous said...

The only reason Richard Alpert seems to know things is b/c they have already happened, and he remembers. He knew Locke was shot by Ethan b/c Locke told him. I am sure Alpert is the ultimate displaced person in time/space. That's why he doesn't know the answer to every detail, he just knew Locke has to die bc that's what happens, not how, or why. Its seems like they used the principles of 'groundhog day'.

laur said...

here's a question...in last year's season finale when walt visited hurley in the mental institute, walt said, "Do you know who did come see me? Jeremy Bentham. I don't understand why you're all lying."
but...when locke saw walt in NY, locke never mentioned his alias name. thoughts?

Ryan said...

I think there is a GLARING factor everyone is overlooking... the timeline doesn't exactly ad up. I would hope to chalk up to further explanation, but my fear is that, in the rush, the writers might have slipped a bit.

Let's start with Sayid:

Ben moves the FDW and ends up in Tunisia. We next spot Ben spying on Sayid, In Iran, at the funeral of his girlfriend (whom he spent 9 months together with since coming home). Sayid spots ben, goes after him, ben convinces Sayid to work with him. Sayid kills bald guy and he is on his way to working with Ben and straightening his hair and sipping espresso in foreign countries and playing golf on exclusive courses.

HOWEVER... when Locke turns the FDW, he immediately goes and looks for Sayid and finds him in the Dominican Republic building homes for a humanity project. It is safe to assume that when Locke teleported, he obviously moved forward in time (like Ben did). And here is Sayid, doing good for the less fortunate, hair au natural, and seeming to have left the assassin's guild behind him. Yet at Locke's postmortem story line, Sayid is back to being the straight haired suave ninja that he is.

So did he work with Ben, then leave him, only to get sucked back in again? I guess it is possible, but there are a lot of holes in that swiss cheese.

Advance to Jack:

He's back home, pulled off the lie to the world, and is now romancing the Kate He starts to get a bit suspicious of her clandestine meetings and phone calls, sees visions of his dad, and stats taking pills. He gets a bit scruffier, starts growing a decent (yet professional) beard.

Then Locke gets in a car accident and ends up in his hospital. Jack, still scruffy but obviously not on suspension for violation of wellness policies, has a frank discussion in which Locke startles the bejeezus out of him with a message from daddy.

Now we know this sends Jack over the edge, and he buys his first ticket to get back to the island. We find this out at the climax of the episode in which Locke was about to kill himself, ben intervenes, gets the info he needs, then takes Locke out for good and sets up the suicide frame job.

YET... when we saw Jack in that season finale, he was MUCH scruffier in the beard, an alcoholic pill popper, was on suspension and had taken NUMEROUS flights on Oceanic routes to get back to the island. It is then he finds out about Locke's suicide in the obituary and goes to visit the body, where he meets Ben and boom goes the dynamite.

But the amount of time between a suicide and an obituary is not equal to the amount of time that we see between "Jacks". Sure, they could have had the body on ice to identify him, but the county would not have released him to a funeral home unless someone was paying for it. And a funeral home wouldn't have had that body hanging around for very long, either.

All of this is based on a timeline analyzing Jack's deterioration and physical appearance. In addition, it is based on Sayid's appearance and current life path.

Anonymous was right. The math on these time lines do not work out. The writers have left a LOT of room for assumption, innuendo and frankly, guesswork. Which means one of two things: they slipped in the rush... OR... there is a lot more to this timeline that will be upcoming.

In the end, it should have been a two part episode that cleaned up all these little inconsistencies and gaps.

Hobbes said...

Rob Rose - Great point on #4. That's how I saw it.

He (Ben) probably did something similer to Widmore as Widmore put it he was "fooled by him" (Ben)and "exiled". Ben is always the liar, manipulator and is quite skilled in removing the competition (for control or leadership). Perfect at finding out just what he needs to know. Perhaps we will find out what he did exactly to trick Widmore into exile. Perhaps these are the details surrounding "the incident"?

On another note, I was wondering if anyone can figure this one out. When Locke was staying at a hotel after seeing Jack in the hospital. The hotel's sign only had the letters

WEST RFIL HOTL

lite up. Anyone here adept at those word jumble games?

Cheers!

Hobbes said...

One more thought. When John is getting ready to kill himself. He throws one of his crutches away and we get a shot of his right foot (the broken leg), toes sticking out from his cast. I did a freeze frame and can only see four toes. The lighting could simply be bad or does this mean or indicate, he only has four toes on each foot? The FTS was the left leg and foot, not the right so this doesn't necessarily confirm the FTS is of Locke but perhaps a strong clue it could be?

Dave said...

How does Mrs. Hawking fit into all of this? Widmore sends both Des and Locke to see her. He financed her son's research. He knows where she is, yet he never goes to see her or try to use her to get back to the island.

Ben shows up, doesn't seem to phase Hawking at all, yet she is perfectly willing to send Ben back to the island, the one thing Widmore doesn't want.

We still don't know if Widmore is an island orginal, but his history with the island goes back farther than Ben's, who was brought to the island as a child. I'm less inclined to believe that Widmore wants to use the island for his own personal gain. I think he wants to do the right thing, or at least what he considers in his own mind to be the right thing.

Ben, on the other hand, while professing to be protecting the island, always seems to be one step or one lie ahead of being exposed.

Try this theory:
Ben knows Locke is considered special because he appeared to Richard and Widmore (among others)before he was born. Ben discovers this and uses time travel to do something similar, leading Richard to find him in the woods and tell him it is not his time yet. That is how Ben rises to power, but it is all a sham - he can't hear Jacob. His "power" is always on the brink of collapse.

hobbes said...

Scratch that! I think it's just poor lighting. When he is on the table putting about to hang himself another shot possibly shows his pinky toe.

Anonymous said...

for the sake of understanding, in part, the time-line, do we believe Ben when he told Locke that Jack purchased airline tickets to fly to Australia trying to get back to the Island????

CJ said...

Hobbes, one possibility for the anagram: FIRST TWO HELL

Not grammatically correct, of course, but it's a start.

CJ said...

Oh yeah--also: FIRST TELL HOW.

Ryan said...

Anonymous said...
for the sake of understanding, in part, the time-line, do we believe Ben when he told Locke that Jack purchased airline tickets to fly to Australia trying to get back to the Island????

To reply, there is a good chance he could have been lying. But it still doesn't explain the timeline based on Locke's body. Or Sayid's hair, for that matter. I know, i am obsessed with the beard and hairstyle, but they are pretty tell-tale signs of time passing.

hobbes said...

Thanks CJ! Well done! So would that mean Locke had to "First Tell How" to get back to the island (Ben) before you can die?

hmmm? interesting...

Allin said...

Locke HAD TO die because he did die. What happened, happened. And if Alpert or Christian tell him that he had to die is because that was the way it happened. There is no future telling. It's just History...

Basically, 2008 is the past.

Dan Shargel said...

I don't think Ben will ever turn out to be the "good guy." He killed his own father not to mention hundreds of people on the island during the purge. He at best may just turn out to be better or no less better than Widmore. Widmore also was a complete twirp as youth on the island and I doubt that's changed as he's gotten older. Would be nice to know at some point what Ben's motives are for anything he does. Why is he doing anything that he's doing and why should anyone care? It can't just be some childish competition between he and Widmore. Also anyone really believe that Widmore is responsible for the murder of Nadia? Ben had the motive for that not Widmore as far as we know. Ben is bad and if at best he is "good" it will only be in relation to Widmore.

Dan Shargel said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dan Shargel said...

Also, forgot to mention that this is an awesome blog. One of my favorites. Keep up the the excellent work.

Elaine said...

I am wondering if the war is with the new survivors of Ajira flight 316. Both Ceasar and Ilana seem to be very suspect - almost confrontational while searching around the island. Although, Ben and Charles are enemies, perhaps they are on the same side of the island and with the help of Locke defeat these new island inhabitants.

Just a thought. But Ben was really creepy in this episode - there has to be a lot revealed to have me think that he is a good person. I am so confused! Can you tell!?

Thanks Brian - I always love reading everything you post here each week.
And thanks to everyone else who post comments - love your writings as well.

PS - I think Walt will be back on the island

Anonymous said...

With regard to the Jack time line, I think it works as Jack was NOT suspended at the time "Jeremy" died" If you remember in The Looking Glass from season 3, Jack saw Jeremy's obituary on the plane. He then goes to the bridge to jump and the crash happens. He gets stiched up at the hospital. The next day he is looking at the chart of the injured lady. He has his doctor coat on with his name. The new Chief of Surgery comes in and says to Jack "I am surprised you even came in." He also says at the end of the conversation "Go home, have a drink, you deserve it." It is unlikley that he would say these things to Jack if he was suspended. Now therafter he probably got suspended because he robbed the meds cabinet and that same doctor found out he was standing on the bridge before the accident. So, Jack had been in a downward spiral for a while, and therfore the timeline with seeing John is plausible (minus the clear differences in Jack's beard!!!)

singhy said...

Ryan; couple of my thoughts:

- Widmore specifically said to John that the Oceanic 6 had been back for 3 years i.e. that John had skipped forward 3 years in time

- By this point Sayid had done the assassin thing and since stopped trusting Ben (we don't know why). So the fact that he'd now moved on isn't surprising. However, yes, it is odd that he soon returned to LA and killed the man outside Hurley's hospital, however this could have been prompted by Locke's death

- We don't know exactly how long Locke took to visit each of the O6 and then think about attempting suicide. It may be that the time taken between his visit to Jack and the time his body was found/identified was a fair few weeks; enough for Jack's beard to grow and for him to use his Golden Pass a bit more?

I appreciate that's not perfect, esp with your concern about hairstyles, but I think that's reasonable enough for me to accept the storyline! I'm not sure we'll ever get more on it.

Anonymous said...

Is it possible that Locke is alive on the island because he has skipped into the past i.e. into a timeline before his death? That way there's no need to assume a 'resurrection'. This idea that the island has the power to bring people back from the dead bothers me more than the time travel!

CJ said...

Regarding Widmore vs. Ben in "who is the most evil" contest, I still think that Ben is winning hands down at the moment. Yes, Widmore was a twerp as a youngster, but many young twerps do mature and become fine adults. We have seen Ben be the killer, firsthand, and even his comment to Locke after strangling him ("I'll miss you, John, I really will") seems to suggest that he does not expect to see John Locke again, that perhaps he believes he is preventing what the others see as inevitable (Locke's resurrection).

Now, there is still the issue of Widmore "changing the rules" by having Alex killed, so that still leaves some questions about how good Widmore may or not be.

Kram said...

It occurred to me that the passengers on Aijira flight 316 would not have guns, except, perhaps Marshall Ilana. Ceasar found the gun under the desk in the Hydra station. So, perhaps they are the ones in the boat shooting at Sawyer/Juliet and other island flashers...

jon said...

Great episode!

Steve:
"But it's obvious to me that Ben only saved John to find out his contact info of Ms. Hawking. Once that info was there, he went on with the murder. Apparently, Hawkings convinces him that Locke is needed.. but I don't think he knew that he had to die."

Nah, I don't think so. How do we know that Ben doesn't just realize that John needs to die to get back and then will be revived?

It is interesting that Ben most of all is surprised and interested in the fact that Jin is alive.

re: Ryan, I'm with singy's explanation of Jack's seemingly fast growing beard. It has some rough spots but nothing to problematic.

CJ said...

Hobbes,

I double checked the screencap for the picture of the hotel sign, and it looks like there is an additional "e" (WEST RFIEL HOTL). I need to stop, but playing around a bit with the scrabble tiles, I came up with these:

OTHERS FIT WELL
TEST OF HER WILL
REST OF THE WILL
FEEL LOW THIRST
FORETELLS WITH
FELLOW HITTERS
LOW FIT SHELTER
HIT REST FELLOW

Obviously much of this is nonsense, but I wanted to share at least some of the combinations I found.

MATTD said...

So who'se Lost's trashcan man?

CJ wrote "The whole business about a coming war and the way the two sides are being drawn is reminding me again of Stephen King's "The Stand"--isn't that one of the books mentioned previously as having some influence on LOST?"

It is mentioned by Damon/Carlton as an influence.

Most interestingly is that the "war" in The Stand is ultimately decided by a loose nuke (hello JUGHEAD) detonated by the "hand of god" after being delivered to Flagg by the Trashcan Man. Will be fun to see where and when the hydrogen bomb makes its next appearance.

Dharma Mayonnaise said...

Re: the anagram. I saw elsewhere that the sign actually read
WEST RFEIL HOTL (Which has an extra 'E' than your post....

In that case, someone had suggested that it rearranges to:
Rest Of The Will (though 'Will of the rest' sounds better to me).

I came up with Show Filler... Tet. lol

Or Two Shit Feller. yep, that's it

Dharma Mayonnaise said...

Sorry, CJ beat me to it

Ryan said...

Singhy and Anonymous-

Good calls and fair enough. It isn't like it is anything to get me to stop watching. It just happens to be one of those things I notice, previously working as a script supervisor. And it has been a show that has been fairly spot-on in that regard, so this just became glaring to me.

Letting it go... haha!

Heidi said...

I think that Jack was so upset because he probably thought that he added to Locke's suicide and/or death. I mean, regardless of anything else that happened ont he island, the last thing he said was that he was a sad, pathetic old man.

Dandaman said...

Great point about Locke not really being resurrected and instead merely being 'alive' because they went back in time to when he was actually alive. I don't know the whole thing is just weird.

hobbes said...

CJ - Opps I wrote the missing "E" on paper but typo'ed it on the blog. Damn I really liked "FIRST TELL HOW" hmph! - lol

rutkowskilives said...

Hey Brian, since you have all of these episodes and commentary archived, in the future (maybe at the end of season 5) it would be really cool to rehash a list of unsolved mysteries - stuff like what's the story on Ben getting caught by CFL, the whispers, Adam and Eve, if there's any more story to the Black Rock/Henry Gale/other things like that, etc.

One thing that has been quickly forgotten I think is "Jughead." I mean, somewhere, there's a nuke on the island. Yeah, Faraday told them how to patch it, but... a nuke is kind of a big deal. Was it ended to detonate on the Island, or protect the Island? Is it still there? If so, is that a problem?

It just seems like it must have been kind of a key thing to point out in the show.

VictorC said...

I really hate to shoot people's theories down, but the theory that Locke is only alive because they're in the past doesn't have any evidence to support it.
He clearly returned to the island at a date AFTER turning the FDW, not before.

You just have to accept the fact that if the island can heal you, it can also resurrect you.
Remember, Locke is not the first person to be resurrected on the island.

Gracie said...

If the new crash did take place on the smaller island, someone has to move another of those boats to the main island. Our skipping survivors came across two boats on their beach, right?