"Sundown" Analysis!

Talk about your all-time backfires.

As I mentioned in my "Sundown" Instant Reactions, it seemed like a pretty light week on Lost mythology, so I thought it would be a good time to catch up on some of the unanswered questions of the season (and series) thus far. I have to say, I wasn't expecting over 100 Comments worth of questions - but I am a man of my word (when it's convenient), so without further ado, here are my best answers to all your questions. In the process, hopefully we'll talk about everything worthwhile from "Sundown", and we'll all leave this Blog post totally understanding everything on Lost.

Enjoy!

lostinternut said...

I don’t like to post comments usually… just like to read… but I can’t find any info here the is fresh. I’ve been searching for 5 days. Do you know what this is about…

http://www.globalwelfareconsortium.com/

I am looking for a Lost “pro” to weigh in…

sorry to be first poster!

Brian says…

It was part of the Lost ARG from 2007. You can read all about it here: lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Global_Welfare_Consortium. That was an easy one!

aa23278 said...

i dont think anyone mentioned the black and white rocks, the "inside joke" smokelocke talked about to sawyer. Its funny how the balance was tipped towards the black rock....just wondering on your take!

Brian says…

I assume this is a reference to the fact that Jacob represented the “white rock” and Anti-Jacob represented the “black rock”. While the two were both alive on the Island, things were in balance, represented by the scale. Now that Anti-Jacob has killed Jacob, he threw the white rock into the ocean, representing that Jacob is no longer living on the Island. Now, the scales are tipped in Anti-Jacob’s favor, since there is no equal and opposing force to him on the Island… at least not yet. That’s where the “Candidates” come into play.

Laurie said...

this has probably been stated...but...why did claire not time travel like everyone else?

Brian says…

Great question, and one that I’m not sure we ever fully addressed on the Blog. If you look at who time traveled, it was limited to not only our Survivors – but just our Survivors who were alive (note that Charlotte stopped jumping through time once she died). Based on what we know now, it sure does seem like Claire died in the “Great Keamy Attack of Season Four”, and was “Claimed” by Anti-Jacob. Since she was dead, she didn’t travel through time. Easy enough, right?

The better question is – why did ONLY our living Survivors travel through time? I’m fine with the explanation that the Others didn’t travel through time because they were somehow spiritually tied to the Island or “one with the Island” – but if that is the case, what exactly happened when Ben turned the FDW? It somehow sent out a “time traveling signal” that only affected the “outsiders” on the Island? Seems a little strange. Also, keep in mind what the true purpose of the FDW was – to protect the Island by moving it, so that Widmore couldn’t find it again. On the surface, there doesn’t appear to be anything associated with time travel in that function. But maybe we’ve been looking at it all wrong.

Honestly, I was never fully satisfied with the notion that the Island simply moved around in space by turning the FDW. Even though we’ve all used the “moving Island” concept to explain various theories throughout the years (like how Yemi’s plane could have ended up on the Island in the Pacific, when he left from Africa), it seems a little far-fetched. But now that we’ve seen this “alternate reality” world this season, I think there could be a better explanation.

Even though the Island appears to be under water in the LA X world, I kinda get the feeling that there is only one Island across all realities. It’s so “special” and “magical”, I just feel like it has to be 100% unique… there is Reality #1 Jack and Reality #2 Jack – but there’s only one Island… and based on all the weird stuff we’ve seen with time on and around the Island (see: Faraday’s experiment, the Freighter Doctor washing up on the Island before he was killed), I have to believe that the Island somehow exists outside of the normal flow of time.

What if the Island represents the “crossroads” of a number of different alternate realities? It’s the one thing that holds it all together. It’s the one place that it’s possible to jump from one reality to the other. This could easily tie into the “SmokeLocke lets you choose another reality” theory – by sending you away from the Island to a different reality than the one you came from – a reality where things are different. The other thing I like about this theory is that it would give us the reason why the Island is so important, and worth saving. If something were to happen to destroy the Island, maybe it would blow open the gateway between these two realities, and result in things bleeding from one reality to the other, like we are potentially seeing in the LA X action?

Anyways – if all of this is true, then turning the FDW might have a lot more to do with moving the Island around between Realities than simply physically moving it from one place in the ocean to another… which, for some unknown reason, seems more “realistic” to me.

One last thought about the time-traveling. If you remember my analysis from last season, I came to the conclusion that the time traveling jumps were orchestrated by Anti-Jacob, since almost every jump factored heavily into his “loophole” plan. Yet the time traveling didn’t start until the FDW was turned… and there did seem to be a connection between the FDW being off-axis and the jumps happening. So perhaps this left the Island in limbo between two realities for a time – and while the Island is in limbo, the normal “rules of reality” don’t apply – which is why Anti-Jacob could throw our Survivors around in time.

Maybe that’s all gibberish. I feel like this theory isn’t quite fleshed out yet, but I can’t shake the feeling that the Island is the lynchpin between the two timelines we are seeing this season… and I think we’re due a better explanation of the time traveling from last season.

Where were we?

Adam said...

What's up with Jin tied up in the freezer?

Brian says…

I’m pretty sure that we’ll find out when the Sun / Jin-centric episode rolls around this season. The curious thing is that the last time we saw Jin, he was in the custody of the legit law enforcement at the LAX Airport – and then a few days later he’s tied up and involved with Keamy, who is far from legit law enforcement. That seems to hint that Jin gets out of his current bind with Johnny Law, but perhaps loses the money / watch in the process, that he was supposed to deliver to someone that Keamy works for? Without having the “package” for delivery, Keamy locks him up in the freezer until he can figure out what to do with him… and enter Sayid.

Bobb said...

So, with what we've seen thus far, who or what can/will stop SmokeLock if he can't be killed?

Brian says…

Well, let’s think back to what actually killed Jacob. He was stabbed by Ben – but it wasn’t especially violent (the actual stabbing looks hilarious if you go back and look at it – Michael Emerson might be a great actor, but he’s a terrible stabber) and Jacob seemed to die instantly. Compare that to Sayid stabbing SmokeLocke, which was with a bigger knife, and a much deeper cut… which had no effect on him. What’s the difference? For that matter, what was the “Loophole” that Anti-Jacob exploited?

I have to think that the same rules would apply to Jacob and Anti-Jacob. Therefore, whatever killed Jacob should be able to kill Anti-Jacob. Maybe it’s as simple as “you can only be killed by one of your own”, which has a nice “betrayal” ring to it. This would mean Ben, as a follower of Jacob who dedicated his life to the Island, could kill Jacob – but if SmokeLocke had told Frank to stab Jacob, nothing would have happened. The results would have been the same as what we saw when Sayid stabbed SmokeLocke. If this is the case, one of the people that SmokeLocke has “turned” or “claimed” would have to be the one to stop him. Since people like Claire and Sayid seem almost brainwashed at this point, I think the most likely candidates right now are Sawyer and Kate. The irony here is that SmokeLocke seems to need these individuals as part of his mission to “go home”, so he has to keep them around, even though they might be the only ones who can ruin his plan.

I’ll also mention this – at this point, we don’t know if the same “rules” that applied to Jacob and Anti-Jacob apply to Ben and Widmore (who also referenced them). If they do, then Ben knows the rules, and might be the key to figuring out a way to stop Anti-Jacob, even if he can’t do it himself.

Bobb said...

If SmokeLocke just wants to "go home" as he previously said...what's stopping him from simply doing that now?

Brian says…

Probably the “rules”. There’s probably something in there that binds him to the Island as long as there are people on the Island. Which is why Alpert told Sawyer that he “wants to kill every living thing on the Island”. I don’t imagine it’s anything physically stopping him from leaving.

Bobb said...

Oh....and why is Kate not walking around in a bikini??

Brian says…

Because she wasn’t wearing a bikini on the Ajira Flight 316… and she wears terrible bikinis. See evidence from a few years ago. What's up with that bottom?!

Drewcipher said...

What if Jacob and MiB are brothers, and Adam and Eve were their parents? After shipwrecking, they died after some time, and each boy claimed one of the rocks from one of their parents (metaphorical mainly). Eventually, they developed a Cain and Able type relationship, which would be shown somewhat through flashbacks. Thoughts?

Brian says…

I like the Cain and Able relationship, and Jacob and Anti-Jacob being brothers – but the timing doesn’t seem to work out for their parents to be Adam and Eve. Again, in Season One Jack said that Adam and Eve were roughly 40-50 years old, which means they died in the 1950’s or 1960’s. This is part of the puzzle, since we aren’t aware of any characters dying on the Island in that timeframe… at least not yet.

CJ said...

Where is Richard hiding? Sawyer? Don't we still have another group of others somewhere, or are we out of "others" we have already met?

Brian says…

Part of me hopes that Richard has realized what is going on, and is working hard to stop it – not just cowering under a rock somewhere, hiding from SmokeLocke. If I was writing the show (which I am not), I would have Richard leave the Island and recruit people like Desmond and Widmore, to get the whole gang back together on the Island. Remember, we have seen Richard off-Island in the past, why couldn’t he flee the Island to get help? We saw that Ben and Jacob had a number of contacts in the outside world. One would think that with so many Others being wiped out in “Sundown”, the numbers are growing pretty small for SmokeLocke’s opposition on the Island.

Since the Temple Others put out their “warning call” with fireworks a few episodes back, I’m guessing that any non-Temple Others at the time quickly returned to the Temple, since it was the “last safe place on the Island”. Right now, I think that the only Others left on the Island are those following SmokeLocke – which seem to number about 15.

Derek said...

Is it possible that the lighthouse changes the bearing that is needed to travel to in order to enter/exit the island?

Brian says…

Maybe – although if that were the case, why would it show places from the past for each of our Survivors – and why would there be names associated with each bearing? That doesn’t seem to make much sense to me. However, I could there being a relation between what bearing you come and go to the Island on with what Reality you end up in. So if you come to the Island on 305, you better damn well leave on bearing 305, or it results in a Desmond-esque “lack of Constant” as your brain scrambles between two different realities.

robpatt said...

Do you think Kate will turn? Not we will have a reunion of Kate and hungover Sawyer on team Smokey, do you think this could be enough to unrecruit Sawyer? On Smokey's team it seems like Sayid and Claire are the only "claimed" ones, do you think that the others could flip flop?

Where do you think the on island stuff is heading? With the temple seemingly out of the picture what is going to be the next key place? FDW? caves? Dharmaville? It just seems like Smokey team is just trying to kill everyone and the other team is disorganized (unless we learn more about Illana) and just trying to stay alive.

Brian says…

I don’t think that Kate is actually on “Team SmokeLocke”. I think she’s following Claire, because her original goal on the Island was to save her. SmokeLocke obviously knows this, and is keeping a close eye on her, waiting to see what happens. He hasn’t convinced her of anything yet. As for Sawyer and any of the Others, I think they’re all fair game to switch sides.

Where is the Island stuff heading? Good question. There has always been a “home base” for the action on the series – a set where the non-walking-through-the-Jungle action takes place. Now that we’ve seen the Temple, there aren’t any other On-Island locations that we need to see, so it’ll either be a repeat location (I have to think the beach will come back into play, since it’s the most picturesque) or a new “Anti-Jacob hideout” that we’ve never seen before. I’m hoping for the beach. The other potential is that Team SmokeLocke are on a mission to find Hurley and Jack – two characters that EVERYONE seemed pretty concerned about this episode. On the other hand, SmokeLocke basically walked away from Ilana and Co. on the beach after killing Jacob, which means he is less concerned with them. Interesting, and helps rule out Sun as a “Candidate” to replace Jacob, right?

robpatt said...

woah, just got another idea.

Going off what Dogen said to Sayid about his balance being shifted towards evil, i wonder if the scale in the caves was meant to be weighing the different people if they are good or evil. Our 4,8,15,16,23,42 people were shades of gray, not swung either direction so they were candidates to choose their side.

The biggest hole in this theory is Hurley who its hard to see anything wrong with except clumsyness.

Maybe the point if for them to choose their side, and if anyone chooses Jacob that is enough???

Brian says…

I see where you are going with this – I think. This would indicate that when Oceanic 815 crashed on the Island, Jacob handpicked all the “good people” (like Cindy and the Kids), but left behind those that were “in between” good and evil. But if that were the case, why wouldn’t Jacob just make the “good people” the Candidates in the first place? I took Dogen’s statement to mean there was a battle inside each of us between good and evil, and now that he had been “claimed” by Anti-Jacob, the “evil” side was starting to win, and it would only be a matter of time before it took over… which is what we saw at the end of the episode, when Sayid gave the creepiest look ever – so creepy that is scared Ben!

Hobbes said...

With all this "zombie" business going on, does this mean a showdown between Jack and Christian? A test of faith or culmination of prophecy or fulfillment of roles akin to what we saw between original Locke and his Dad at the sacrificial columns?

We haven't seen Christian in a while. I always kind of thought he might be a potential "good" wild card, but as it looks he is in the same group as Claire & Sayid? And if the dead want to leave the island to walk the earth; well… that just has apocalypse written all over it.

Brian says…

I am 100% certain there will be some sort of Jack / Christian interaction before the end of the series, if for no other reason than to give Jack the chance to overcome his daddy issues once and for all, and to tell him “I DO have what it takes!” Earlier this season, I was pretty certain that Christian was simply a manifestation of Anti-Jacob taking over someone else’s body – like Claire and Sayid, but that wouldn’t explain how Jack was able to see him off-Island (right after a smoke alarm went off, nonetheless), or Michael seeing him on the Freighter right before it exploded. If Anti-Jacob is truly “trapped” on the Island, wouldn’t this prevent him from appearing off-Island in any fashion?

Maybe not. Maybe he can still project himself to locations Off-Island, but can’t physically manifest himself there. Talk about a tease – no wonder he wants to go home. He can see all the great advancements that have happened in the outside world since he arrived on the Island (TV! Airplanes! Skyline Chili!) but can’t experience any of it for himself since he’s physically trapped on the Island.

I think it’s too late to introduce a third wild card into the mix, and have Christian be some separate mystical entity on the Island – so I’m sticking with him being a part of Anti-Jacob until we see evidence otherwise.

jack said...

The observation posted previously that anti-Jacob was never mentioned by name is interesting. Can this mean his real identity may be the "mother of all reveals" in LOST? Brian, please follow-up with your thoughts. Excellent, action-packed episode.

Brian says…

I can see Anti-Jacob’s lack of name being explained in one of three ways:

1. It’s someone we already know. This would be a mind-blowing reveal, but would require some big-time time-traveling / shape-shifting to explain his appearance in “The Incident” on the beach with Jacob. It would be cool, but I kinda doubt it.
2. It’s Jacob. Both Jacob and Anti-Jacob are the same entity – but one represents the “good side” and one represents the “bad side”. Anti-Jacob doesn’t have a name because… it’s Jacob. It’s sort of a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde / Tyler Durden situation. This would be pretty cool as well, and really tie-in to the “everyone has two sides, good and evil” – but it doesn’t explain how or why the two would be sitting side by side on the Island in “The Incident”, why the “loophole” was necessary, or why Bloody Young Jacob would bring out such a reaction from Anti-Jacob. I’ll keep it on the table, but think it’s flawed.
3. He’s pure evil. You know how in some books and movies, the pure evil characters cannot be named because even saying their name would scare you / kill you / summon them / whatever? Well, this week we had Dogen tell us that SmokeLocke was “evil incarnate”. It’s possible that the Others don’t have a name for this evil for any of the aforementioned reasons. But if Anti-Jacob was at one point a child arriving on the Island along with Jacob (which is still my favorite theory), he would have a name – and we’ll find it out eventually… although given how long the writers have made us wonder about it seems to make this explanation a little anti-climactic.

The Dinner Doula said...

I am wondering how/why Jack and Hurley will choose Jacob over anti-Jacob - isn't Jacked just a little PO'd that Jacob set this whole thing up?

Brian says…

I know I would be.

If I’m Hurley, I’m pissed off that Charlie and Libby died on the Island as part of Jacob’s little game / master plan.

If I’m Jack, I’m pissed off at all the deaths on the Island, as well as being jerked around by everyone as part of this plan (Ben, Eloise Hawking, etc.)

But one has to think that Jack will come to the realization of his purpose on the Island and it’ll all be worthwhile in the end. The ultimate task for a guy who is obsessed with “fixing things” is to save the world. If Jack gets the chance to do that, I think he’ll be happy.

POBEAVER said...

Question 1: What will happen to Dogen and Lennon ? Will they get claimed by Smokefacelock or does SmokefaceLock claim who he wants?

Question 2: Could Dogen have killed Sayid. He stopped before the ball even hit the ground ? wierd

Question 3: Did Dogen realy think that knife would kill SmokeLock or did he actually send Sayid on a suicide mission ?

Question 4: Ben knew exactly where the pool room was after Miles said that Sayid was heading there. Has Ben spent some time at the temple ? (apart from getting healed)

Question 5: Why is Brian so down to Earth cool ?

Brian says…

1. I think they’re dead. I think most fans are happy they are dead so we can focus on the core characters. I don’t think SmokeLocke needs to claim that at this point, since he didn’t claim any of the other dead Others in the Temple either. He just needed them out of his way.

2. One assumes that Dogen couldn’t kill Sayid for the same reason he told Hurley last week. “You’re lucky I have to protect you. Otherwise I’d cut off your head.”) Even though Dogen seems to know that Sayid is evil, the rules state that you can’t kill a candidate – and he can’t risk breaking those rules… even if Jacob is dead, perhaps he’s afraid there will be negative repercussions to his son Off-Island if he breaks the rules.

3. He sent Sayid on a suicide mission. He knew that Sayid was bad news, but none of the Others could kill him due to the rules. He tried to get Jack to poison Sayid, then he tried to get SmokeLocke to kill him. Both failed, and Sayid got his revenge on Dogen in the end.

4. Yes, I would wager that during his time with the Others (at least 10+ years) Ben made a few trips to the Temple. He knew the Island inside and out.

5. Because I really loved that song at the end of Wall-E. It taught me how to live.

falcon said...

And can someone remind me what is up with the baseball? Does it have something to do with Jack and his sideways son?

Brian says…

Yep – the baseball reminded Dogen of the sacrifice he made. He went to the Island and became a slave to Jacob so that his son could live. It’s his reminder of why he does it, why he needs to follow the rules, and why it’s all worth it.

tiffanie said...

remember when ben was a boy and sayid shot him and they took him to the temple to heal him, but he would never be the same... what side does that put him on? was that when the water was still clear? how does this fit in?

Brian says…

Based on my earlier “Betrayal Theory” about how Ben was able to kill Jacob, I think the water was clear when Ben was brought to the Temple, and that he became “One of the Others” in the process. He became bound by their rules and became a follower of Jacob – which is why he would never be the same. With Jacob dead, the water is no longer clear, which makes sense – since right now the Island is devoid of a Leader. Once the next Leader is named, perhaps the water will once again become clear.

Maggie said...

Brian, Great analysis as always. I just have a quick question on the deal with the devil theory. My only problem with it is the only way the theory holds true is it means either everyone accepts the deal or no one accepts the deal. You can't have some people who are happy with their current existence (Sun and Jin once they find each other, potentially Kate since she is no longer running from the law) and some people who are unhappy (Claiure and Sayid). I guess I am just looking for a deeper insight to the theory because the way I see it now, it forces a group decision as opposed to a case by case basis. No one can stay on the island if it blows up and on the flip side, lives off the island (as we see from the sideways flash) would be different had one person decided to stay on the island (for example, if Claire makes the deal and Kate did not, Claire wouldn't have Kate to help her when she goes into labor.)

Not sure if this makes any sense. I guess I am just looking for additional insight into how this theory works in your opinion.

Brian says…

First off, I should mention that I never said that I fully believed the “Deal with the Devil” theory – I simply was warning you that this would become the most popular theory of the week after “Sundown”. What you mention is definitely a big hole in the theory. I guess I could foresee a scenario where Jack has to make an impossible decision for everyone, deciding their fate, but that completely removes the potential for the audience to realize the individual character growth they’ve all been working on for the past five seasons, so I don’t buy it.

On the other hand, just because all the characters appear in the LA X Reality doesn’t mean that they chose to go there. If only Jack chose to jump to this other reality, all the other characters would still exist in it, just as they exist in the original reality. Think about it like this – how could Charlie chose to live in the LA X Reality when he’s already dead? But just because he’s dead in Reality #1 doesn’t mean that he wouldn’t exist – and couldn’t interact – with the other characters in Reality #2.

The key to this theory is that if some characters make the decision to jump from Reality #1 to Reality #2, would they retain some residual knowledge of their experiences in the first reality? Thus far, we’ve only seen hints of this “bleeding of memory” from Jack, Kate, and Claire. So if you are playing along with this theory, that would mean that these three made the “deal”.

Keep this theory in mind as time goes on – but I wouldn’t say that it’s my favorite theory. I’m leaning more towards a “there have always been multiple realities that are connected by the Island” theory, where the bad stuff happening on the Island is causing things to bleed from one reality to the other – and unless our Survivors stop it, it means the end of existence for everyone. Let’s call this theory the “Complicated End of the World” one.

Dave Harty said...

My question is about the smoke monster:

Prior to this season (and Jacob's death) the smoke moster seemd to be selective in who he went after - killed the pilot, didn't kill Locke. Killed almost the entire French team, let most of the chrash survivors live. He also seemed to be contained by ash and the Dharma security system but was also at Ben's beck and call (through some elaborate summoning routine below his house in Dharmaville) when the freightors threatened the island.

Now Smokey is on a killing rampage!

Is it possible that Jacob used to be Smokey and had all the associated powers, and once he was dead, AJ took over?

And one more question: We've seen Jacob's body in life and after death, but we have not seen the man in black's body since that day on the beach - what happened to his physical body?

Brian says…

If you believe that Jacob and Anti-Jacob are just two sides of the same entity (outlined in “what is Anti-Jacob’s name?” theory #2 above), this would make total sense. Each one could “become” Smokey when they needed – sometimes good, sometimes bad. In effect, there would be two sides to Smokey as well. Sometimes he’s helping people out, sometimes he’s a mindless killing machine.

I still believe that Anti-Jacob is the “Security System” for the Island, and there are some rules about “judging” people before actually killing them. His primary goal is to protect the Island, which is why he actually showed up when Ben summoned him to take care of Keamy and Co. The two biggest holes in the theory are the attacks on the Pilot and Eko – but both could be explained away as being necessary plot points (although I don’t like this).

Technically, we didn’t see Jacob’s body after death. He “disappeared” in the fire after he died (which wouldn’t happen to a normal body). I think it’s logical to think that the same thing happened to Anti-Jacob’s body when he died. He was burned up into ash or just disappeared.

noemailformeadows said...

Ann - one question for that theory I have: Why is Jack's appendix gone? They made too much of a point that it got taken out when he was young for it to just be a mute point. Your theory, which many people are accepting as truth at this point, would mean that Jacob dying = Jack getting an appendectomy when he was 7 or 8... that is very very silly to me. Also, Kate and Claire's lives don't seem to be much different at all. So Jacob didn't care about them or what?

Brian says…

It’s the “butterfly effect”. The smallest change can have dramatic unforeseen consequences worlds away. Does it make sense that setting off a Jughead on an Island in 1977 would change when Jack’s appendix bursts? Not really, but I’d be willing to accept it if I was a fan of this theory – which I’m not.

I actually don’t think that the Jughead had anything to do with the alternate reality we’re seeing this season. As I mentioned in my “Complicated End of the World” theory, the alternate reality has always existed the way that it did. Jack always lost his appendix as a kid in this reality. Perhaps the Jughead caused a ripple effect in the consciousness of our Survivors between these two alternate realities, but I think people are wasting their time in trying to figure out how Ben got off the Island before the Jughead went off, or why Dogen is in Los Angeles. They are there because it’s an alternate reality. Things are similar, but different.

The real question is why do some characters suddenly seem to recognize that things in this reality aren’t quite right? I’m guessing that Jack hasn’t been puzzled by his appendix scar his whole life – why did he suddenly not recognize it the first time he showered post the Oceanic Flight? If it’s a “Deal with the Devil”, it would be logical that their new consciousness would start on the Oceanic Flight – since that is where there was a dramatic split in the lives of the characters. If it’s a “Complicated End of the World” thing, why did the “bleeding” of realities start in 2004, and not in 1977?

Tracey said...

I know that this was previously analyzed to death but this episode reminded me of the Lost "Last Supper" promo pics. Yes, I know that there are different versions but do you think they were a precursor to the two sides? Check it out: http://www.mania.com/lost-last-supper-promos_article_119748.html

Brian says…

The biggest problem with using the “Lost Supper” pictures as a symbol of the two sides in the Jacob vs. Anti-Jacob battle are that Alpert and Ilana, two of Jacob’s biggest supporters (both in life and death) are on the same side as Claire, Sayid, Kate, and Sawyer – two of whom appear to be dead and claimed by Anti-Jacob, and two of whom are not, but are going along for the ride with him right now.

It’s a good thought – and maybe in the end it will make more sense, but for right now it doesn’t quite work out.

Luke said...

I don't know if this was addressed already, but why did Jacob tell Hurley it was so important to have Sayid brought back to life? Did Jacob not know Sayid would be claimed by FLocke? Or, to use a Christian analogy, is it the equivalent of Jesus walking to his death and allowing Judas to betray him, knowing that setting everything in motion would bring the salvation of humanity?

Brian says…

Yeah, and this is one of the problems with viewing Jacob as a 100% “good guy”. He could have let Sayid die, which would have saved the lives of Dogen, Lennon, and perhaps countless other Others inside the Temple. Instead, he sent Hurley on a mission which would result in all those deaths happening and Sayid being responsible. Why?

Even if it’s to prevent the end of the world, it seems like there should have been another way. Jacob clearly knew that bad news was coming to the Temple, which is why he led Hurley and Jack away from it – so what is the net result of having our Survivors go to the Temple?

• Jack and Hurley aren’t there.
• Sayid is claimed.
• Kate and Sayid are with SmokeLocke.
• Miles is with Team Ilana.

It seems like those outcomes could have easily happened without any of the Temple action. The net result of sending our Survivors to the Temple is that most of the Others are dead, and the remaining ones are seemingly on SmokeLocke’s side.

I don’t understand it, at least not yet.

jack said...

Where do you think Sawyer is?

Brian says…

Insert token “stuck in the cave because the ladders broke on the way down!” comment here. Minor details. I assume that SmokeLocke turned into Smokey to quickly travel from the caves to Claire’s fort, leaving Sawyer behind. Maybe SmokeLocke is currently heading back to reunite with Sawyer, or maybe he told him to wait somewhere for him. Either way, I’d expect them to be back together very soon – and Jin, too.

Steve said...

People aren't mentioning.. why is it that Dogen needs to be alive for the ashe to protect the temple?

Brian says…

I can’t believe it took so long to get to this! This was pretty surprising to me, and didn’t make a ton of sense on first glance. It must mean that the power to repel Smokey isn’t so much inside the ash itself, as much as it is tied to the ash being an extension of the “power” of the leader of the Temple. Perhaps they bless the ash (like reverse holy water) and scatter it around, but once the leader of the Temple is dead, the ash loses its blessing?

The good news is, this eliminates any cheap “keep SmokeLocke out” storylines for the rest of the season. Anyone, anywhere is fair game. Having said that, if I were a betting man, the ash of Jacob that Ilana put in her pouch is going to be hugely crucial this season – maybe the ash of Jacob himself doesn’t need to be blessed, and always works? Or maybe she’ll mix it with water, trick SmokeLocke into drinking it, and that will kill him? Just mark my words, it’ll be important.

Steve said...

Note that TSM lies... he's still telling Claire that the others had her baby. Why not tell a lie to Sayid? I would say that Sayid is the leading canidate to become smokey. On the island, there is the 'magic box' why not conjure a Nadia? I think Lockes dad was kidnapped and brought to the island, but could paralell Nadia do the same? This is really starting to sound like fringe where a characters son was brought from a parallel universe to replace his dead 5 year old son.

Both shows are Abrams..

Also.. could the Island actually be a doorway between worlds?

Brian says…

Boom. See my earlier theories. I think it’s possible, although Locke’s Father certainly seemed to be the one from the same reality that Locke came from. But I don’t see why you couldn’t use the “Deal with the Devil” theory in reverse, and have Anti-Jacob bring people from alternate realities to the Island in order to fulfill the wishes of the Survivors. Except that wouldn’t really explain the weird glances and recognitions we’ve seen in the LA X storylines…

Lu!g! said...

I don't know if this was already mentioned here but... Wasn?t Sayid talking about Shannon when he said that the one thing he wanted died in his arms (season 2, after gunshot by Ana Lucia)??

Brian says…

A lot of people mentioned this – maybe Sayid was talking about Shannon when he said the one thing he loved died in his arms?

Hell no.

Personally, I’ve blocked all that Sayid / Shannon romance out of my memory, because it made no sense other than to give Shannon something to do on the show, and have someone care when she died (since Boone was already gone). Nadia is Sayid’s one true love, and you better believe that if he had one wish, it would be to be with Nadia again, not Shannon (although she was a tad hotter):

Oscar said...

Dogen said to Sayid that his scale tipped the wrong way. He DIDN'T say that it tipped to the good or the bad, just the wrong way. I don't think we still know which side is good and which side is bad.

Brian says…

It’s true. Maybe SmokeLocke actually just killed a bunch of bad guys, and he and his team are the “good guys”. But there are walking zombies on his team… and Hurley is on the other side… I refuse to believe that zombies will be good and Hurley will be bad.

I know a lot of people are looking for the big “twist” to be that Jacob is bad and Anti-Jacob is good – but I think both are partially good and partially bad, depending on the methods that they use to meet their end goals. But as of right now, if I had to pick which side to trust and follow, it would be Jacob.

falcon said...

What is up with Cindy and the kids? They were with the Dharmites, then the hippie others at the temple, and are now on walkaabout with sir-smokes-a-locke. Will we ever find out what happened to them after the 815 crash, why Cindy so quickly became a trusted Dharmite, why the Dharmites wanted the kids, etc.? Or will these be among the many questions that are not likely to be neatly tied up by the end of the series?

Brian says…

I would actually like to see a little more explanation of Cindy – not so much that I care about her, but because I’m more curious why the Others grabbed certain members of Oceanic 815 right off the bat, but left other ones – including leaving behind some of the Candidates. The writers teased that there would be an explanation in Season Three, when Jack pressed Cindy for information about how she became assimilated into the Others and she replied “it’s not that simple” – but beyond that, we’ve got no solid information.

Dave Harty said...

Two more questions:

We know about the ship called the "Black Rock", and now the black rock on the scale is in control. Any chance there is some vessel know as the "White Rock" out there somewhere?

Also, Claire didn't see AJ as Locke but as her "friend". Dogen says that he appears as "someone you know who has died". Let's see, who was Claire's best friend who died...? hmmm?

Any chance we see him again?

Brian says…

It would be pretty cool to see a “White Rock” vessel on the Island somewhere, but aside from the Lighthouse last week, it seems like our characters have explored the vast majority of the Island without coming across a “White Rock”. In addition, we’ve never heard any of the other characters talk about it, including the ones who have been there far longer than our Survivors – I’d say the odds are pretty small, and it’s just a coincidence that the white and black rocks are symbolic for the balance between two sides – in addition to the “Black Rock” being the name of the ship.

(Footnote: remember in Season One when CFL talked about “the Black Rock” and we all assumed it was going to be a large stone somewhere on the Island? The fact that it was a pirate ship came out of nowhere – and I almost wonder if the writers changed the Black Rock from a large stone to a pirate ship as a plot device to supply our Survivors with explosives in Season One…)

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Charlie again – but only in the Off-Island LA X action. I’m not a fan of Anti-Jacob suddenly taking over the bodies of all our dead Survivors, since he hasn’t done it up until this point – why start now?

Luke said...

Another question:

I don't know if this has been addressed, but is there an explanation yet as to the appearance of Claire (to Kate) and Jack's dad (to Jack) when they were off-island?

I wouldn't think it was anti-Jacob, since (as I understand it) he is "trapped" in the island. It would make sense, though, since Claire begged Kate not to take Aaron back (assuming he is in fact still special and will affect anti-Jacob's plan).

Or are we supposed to just chalk it up to hallucinations/crazy island mystery?

Brian says…

I defer to my earlier explanation - Anti-Jacob magically projecting himself to people Off-Island, but unable to physically manifest Off-Island. (Although you could definitely chalk both of them up to hallucinations as well, but that’s far less fun.)

Dave said...

I'm wondering what the hell happened to all the Dharma talk? We spend 5 seasons learning and theorizing abou them and now no mention of them at all? They played a major part in getting everyone back to the island (lampost station), among other things. There has to be something more to Dharma, right?

Brian says…

In the end, I’ll probably have to admit I’m disappointed in how all the Dharma stuff played out on the series. We spent three seasons learning about this mysterious group conducting secret experiments – potentially in an effort to save the world – but then once we actually spent a full season with them, we learned that very few of them were very smart or had any idea of what was going on. They came across as hippies looking to escape from the rest of the world instead of scientists looking to save it.

Having said that, I do think we are due an explanation about the creation of the Lamp Post, since Eloise Hawking teased that it was built by a “very clever” man.

g?klemez said...

1. did you catch any inconsistencies in the story-telling? i mean, did anything happened in the show that contradicts what has shown or told before? if yes, what are they?

2. it think, before, back in season one, two or three, partially four; story-telling was pure genius. there was a big scheme of things that we were not aware of. we were wondering and trying to figure out what this big picture was. Also, writers were quite successful to manage such complexity, hundreds details, connections, variations, etc. But now, all i can see is a simple, one-dimensional story, that is built upon its former legendary background. What i want to say is this: now, writers can easily show a "deus ex machina" nowadays.

- we need to get out of the temple.

- well, there is a secret passage somewhere here.

- how we did not see that lighthouse?

- well, we didn't look correctly.

etc. i think we can find tons of examples.

any way, here is the questions: what do you think about that? if you do not think so, please enlighten me, because i am not exactly satisfied with what i watch recently.

thanks.

Brian says…

1. Yes, there appear to be some inconsistencies in story-telling right now – but there is still time for some of those inconsistencies to be straightened out. For the most part, it seems like the writers changed plans mid-course about characters and plot lines, which makes some of what they said earlier seem inaccurate (I’m thinking about CFL in Season One, and Ben in Season Two). There are also storylines that have been abandoned without full explanation (yet) – but I guess those aren’t so much inconsistencies as incompletes. We’ll wait and see how it all shakes down. For the most part, it seems like the writers have found ways to sneak out of corners they have painted themselves into, which I applaud.
2. I would almost take the opposite viewpoint. The characters on the show made things way too difficult for themselves in the first four seasons by not sharing information, not talking to each other, and inconveniently killing and destroying people and things that could have kept the story moving along at a much faster pace. Now, it feels like the writers have made them a little smarter to keep the plot moving along quickly.

Dave Harty said...

Didn't Claire go into the temple to get her son? And then she just left with SmokeLocke without even looking for him?

Brian says…

Great point. It seems like SmokeLocke’s little mission at the Temple should have proved to Claire that Aaron isn’t there, and therefore she should be upset at him. Although, the two did share a little conversation before entering the Temple about SmokeLocke “keeping his word to her”, so maybe he explained that Aaron wasn’t inside the Temple, but is kept somewhere else by the Others?

However, the fact that SmokeLocke needs to “trick” Claire into helping him indicates that the Claimed aren’t just mindless zombies following his every demand. They still retain their motivations from before they were Claimed, which may mean there is hope for the “real” Claire, Sayid, or Locke to “come back” if Anti-Jacob is defeated… which would be pretty cool.

Dichelle said...

Question: How come Dogen says Claire is a "confused girl" but Sayid is evil, when he said the same thing happened to both of them? SmokeLocke's personal contact with and influence over "the claimed" may be very important.

Brian says…

I assume that Dogen said “confused girl” since Claire thinks that Aaron is being held by the Others, but he is not. To the Others, this seems to be her only motivation for attacking them. So if she wasn’t confused about the location of Aaron, she might be a non-threat to them. On the other hand, we saw this episode that Sayid is a big threat to them.

jack said...

Any thoughts on how Illana knows so much about everything on the Island? Any interpretations on the symbols she was looking at on the walls in the temple? Some posts suggest she could be Jacob's daughter. Even so, I wonder if we'll get any backstory on her to explain how she is so up to speed on everything on the Island. She's turning out to be an awesome character despite us not knowing much about her.

Brian says…

Seeing that Jacob is potentially some never-aging god-like being, I’m not sure how he could have a living child in the present day, although Ilana does seem to know an awful lot about the Island and have a strong emotional connection to Jacob.

The good news is that we’re absolutely going to get some backstory on her. Remember her mini-flashback, with Jacob visiting her in the hospital (where she was seriously messed up)? I assume we’ll get an explanation to what that was all about, which may explain the nature of her relationship to Jacob and the Island. It’s possible she is something like the “Off-Island” leader of the Others, who governs over the whole network of Off-Island Others that Ben utilized during his time away from the Island. If so, maybe she doesn’t age (like Alpert), and knows all the Island secrets – serving as a “backup copy” of that information in case bad things happen to everyone on the Island who knew the information (like what we are seeing happening right now!)

dj (David Jones) said...

One thing that I had forgot about, and it came back to me recently:

How crucial is the scene with the outrigger/boat/canoe/thing going to be?

Do you guys remember that? Our survivors on island were flashing in time, headed to the Orchid, and got chased by boat and shot at. Then, Juliet shot back at them, and I suspect hit someone in the boat behind them.

They still haven't addressed that scene from the present day perspective, and the longer they wait to show it the more important it becomes.

It may kill a candidate for all we know.

What do you think about that Brian? When do you think that will happen, and what speculation do you have on that?

Brian says…

I have not forgotten about this either. The explanation doesn’t require our Survivors to do any time traveling, simply to continue living until they reach the moment where Juliet and Co. flashed into their timeline. If this scene had happened in Season One or Two, I’d be less confident about getting an answer. Since it just happened last season, the writers obviously did it for a reason, with the rest of the series in mind. Given the character groupings we have now on the Island, it seems like the most likely candidates to be in that back outrigger is Team Ilana (Ilana, Ben, Miles, Frank, Sun) since they would all fit in one outrigger.

The big question is – why would they be chasing after (and shooting) the front outrigger that Juliet was on?

If you’re looking for the ultimate sad ending, we find out that Juliet shoots and kills Sawyer. I just don’t know how satisfying that would be from a storytelling perspective.

I’m holding out hope that it somehow is the “bad guys” in the back outrigger, and Juliet helps save the day by shooting one of them… now we just have to figure out who the “bad guys” are, and why they would be chasing and shooting them in the first place.

Isaac said...

I'm sure I'm way late on participating here but I'll ask anyways. Not sure if this has been asked yet but...

Which deceased characters from past seasons do you think will reappear in upcoming episodes as being on AJ's crew, aka: team zombie?

I was thinking about this today and right now we know of possibly four: Claire (more then likely died in explosion), Sayid, Christian & Alex.

Other "non-buried" possibilities: Charlie, Roger Linus, Keamy, Omar, Rousseau, Karl, Charlotte, Ethan, Naomi, pieces of Artz.....

Brian says…

Nope! I’m a man of my word. You ask a question, I’m going to answer it this week – no matter how ridiculously long it makes this post.

As I mentioned before, I’m not a fan of Anti-Jacob taking over any of the formerly dead Survivors on the Island since he has had plenty of opportunity to do so up until this point, but passed. Right now, he’s got a numbers advantage on his side with roughly 25 followers vs. the roughly 10 people who are opposing him. I don’t think he needs any extra zombie soldiers right now.

Sherilyn -The Dominee Huisvrouw said...

With all the time flashes, I never really got a good idea of how things happened chronologically, could someone please try explaining it?

Brian says…

There is a great explanation on Lostpedia here: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline:Time_shifts

Wow. I’m not sure if that was really an analysis of “Sundown” or just an exercise in rapid-fire Lost trivia, but either way, I hope you enjoyed it. My fingers are tired.

Until next week!

http://facethewoods.com/lost/index.php?topic=513.0