Monday, February 18, 2008

"The Economist" Analysis!

This week was one of those rare occasions where I actually had to go back and re-watch the most recent episode of Lost before I started blogging. It’s probably hard to believe given how much I blab about each episode, but most of the time I just watch each episode once, with whoever is in the Delta House at the time, and then rely on the screen shots I pull from Lost-Media to remind me about what happened in each episode.

But not this week.

There were a few moments that were had such potentially huge implications on both the episode and the series that I wanted to make sure I got them in my head just right before I started writing. So, with two viewings of “The Economist” under my belt, I think I’m as ready as I’m ever going to be to start analyzing.

Let’s do it.

Jacob. But before we get to the really heady stuff, just like last week let’s start off with the relatively easy topic of Jacob again – more specifically, with his cabin. Locke’s inability to find the cabin seems to indicate that it really isn’t some physical object that just anyone can stumble upon. Ironically, this fits perfectly with what Ben told us from the very start. To paraphrase:

“No one speaks to Jacob but me.”
“No one knows where Jacob is but me.”
“Jacob is not someone that you visit, Jacob summons you.”

However, we’ve since seen that Jacob actually talked to Locke as well, but maybe he’s still not too keen on unannounced visitors, especially when they are with a handful of other “less worthy” individuals, as Locke was this week. I still think that Locke is Jacob’s “chosen one”, the one that will “help him” – but that he wasn’t willing to reveal himself to a group of people… especially when someone in that group happens to be a Freightor.

But – the big thing that this showed was that the circle of volcanic ash around the cabin from last season’s “The Man Behind the Curtain” really isn’t acting as a prison for Jacob like we all assumed. It now appears that Jacob is able to pick up his cabin and leave the circle when necessary – which means that Ben probably doesn’t really have any power over Jacob at all.

The other weird thing is that everything we’ve seen over the last season and a half seemed to indicate that Ben had fallen out of favor with the Island – everything from him having the tumor on his spine (when Others allegedly don’t get sick) to Jacob speaking to Locke in the cabin rather than to Ben. However, as we saw this episode, Future Ben (we should probably call him “Present Ben”, but that would make everything on Island be “Past Ben” and that’s just too confusing) is still 100% fighting for the Island – which would seem that he’s on the same side as Jacob in the end. After all, they both want the same thing – to destroy the Freightors and protect the Island.

Maybe Jacob saw this battle coming and knew that it would be a multi-front battle. He’s using Locke to fight the enemy on the Island, and Ben to fight the enemy off the Island. Or maybe Jacob and Ben kiss and makeup sometime over the course of the next season – but it’s looking like in the flashforwardy future, Ben and the Island are still partners in the same battle.


Ben. That brings us to the crazy revelation at the end of this episode – Benjamin Linus is alive and well in the future… and totally off the Island. Actually, this shouldn’t have come as that big of a surprise given the super-revealing details of the secret room inside his house. Clearly, the fact that Ben has large sums of currency from across the world, a host of different passports, and a full collection of super-boring wardrobe indicates that Richard Alpert isn’t the only one who has been making trips off the Island over the years.

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As we mentioned last week, this gives a much more literal meaning to Ben’s quote from last season of “most of the people you see? I brought them here”… and probably confirms that the picture Miles had of Ben was snapped during on of his off-Island recruiting missions. So it makes sense that if things get really crazy on the Island, and the Freightors start to win the battle, that Ben would leave the Island in an effort to take them out at the source, back in the real world.

But there are still a few points that don’t make sense. First and foremost, why didn’t Ben leave the Island to have his spinal surgery performed by some neutral surgeon, rather than having Jack do it and just hope that he didn’t kill him on the operating table? My previous best explanation for why Ben was so adamant about using Jack was that he refused to leave the Island – but we now see that this isn’t the case. Was this an example of Ben simply needing Jack to perform the surgery as a way to prove he still had a strong connection to the Island / Jacob, and it would “take care of him” without needing real world intervention? Or was it simply a plot device to move the third season along?

The other, much more difficult question concerns the huge stash of money found in Ben’s secret desk. Clearly, this money had to come from somewhere. While we’ve already established the wealth and power of Hanso / Dharma – it also seems logical that all ties to these groups would have been severed when Ben went all purgey on the Dharmites.

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There are a few somewhat logical explanations for the money still flowing, with the easiest being that it was included in the periodic ration drops that apparently were paid for well-in-advance and are being carried about by some independent Dharma third party. The other would be that Ben, during his recruiting missions, sucked in some investors – possibly promising them access to the magic power of the Island, living forever, etc. The third (which I’ll do my best to disprove shortly) is that due to the Funky Time on the Island, Ben was able to gamble on sporting events that he already knew the outcome.

The important thing here is that Ben seemed to have kept all of this secret from the majority of the Others. He needed to keep up the image that the Island would provide everything that you needed, that there was no need to ever leave, or even that there was no possible way to leave the Island (at least after the Hatch Implosion). It all feeds back to the central theme of Ben controlling the lives and being the puppeteer for everyone on the Island… our Survivors included.


Sayid. Before we start discussing Sayid, keep this in mind – he’s probably the smartest, most level-headed and logical of any of our Survivors. Even though he’s seen killing people in the flashforward and working for Ben, there is no way Sayid would be doing any of this unless there was an extremely good reason for it. After all, he said that the day he even believed Ben would be the day he sells his soul. But we see that he is not only believing Ben – but working for him, and risking his life for him.

The other weird thing is that Sayid seems to be the only member of the Oceanic Six who is engaged in these Alias-esque spy-assassination games. Jack, Kate, and Hurley may have their own post-Island issues going on, but it doesn’t seem like anyone is attempting to kill them – and they aren’t attempting to kill anyone else. So what happened with Sayid?

If you go back and read the conversation between Ben and Sayid at the conclusion of “The Economist”, it gives a few hints:

Ben: “These people don't deserve our sympathies. Need I remind you what they did the last time you fought with your heart instead of your gun?”Sayid: “You used it to recruit me to kill him for you.” Ben: “Do you want to protect your friends or not, Sayid? I have another name for you.”Sayid: “But they know I'm after them.” Ben: “Good.”

First, it looks like there was some event that drove Sayid to begin working for Ben. Given the absence of Nadia in this episode, smart money would be on Sayid returning as a member of the Oceanic Six, reuniting with his former lady-friend, and having her killed by Freightors (fun twist – it’s actually Ben that kills her, but he convinces Sayid it was the Freightors as a way to get him to work for him!).

Second, Ben mentions that Sayid is doing all this killing in an effort to protect his friends. Sayid’s “friends” could either be referring to the other members of the Oceanic Six (who again, seem somewhat oblivious to any potential danger), or to the Survivors left behind on the Island. This would again tie in to the theory that our Oceanic Six left everyone behind on the Island in the middle of a bad situation, and Sayid is working with Ben to try and eliminate the enemy in the real world to indirectly help the Survivors fight off the Freightors on-Island.

Lastly, it seems as though Ben has a list (again with the lists – man, the Others are just like my future wife!), this time containing the names of everyone associated with “The Economist”. Sayid is working through the list to eliminate people and gain information about the Economist – who seems to be the head of the group that poses such a danger to the Island and “every living person on it”. Sayid had previously been working covertly – but now his cover is blown. Why is this a good thing?

Much like Hurley in this week’s episode, the key to any good trap is bait. Now that the Economist knows the true intentions of Sayid, there’s a chance he’ll start sending his own henchmen after him – which could help Ben track down the Economist through these henchmen. Sure, it’s probably putting Sayid’s life in much greater danger – but for Ben, that’s a small price to pay for a chance to eliminate the Economist.


The Economist. I suppose with all this talk about the Economist, we should probably analyze who this person really is. There were only a few clues throughout the episode – but we’ll see what information can be garnered from them.

First, Elsa carries around an oversized, Zack-Morris-Cell-Phone-style pager, which indicates that the Economist is more of an old-fashioned person. If you wanted to get really crazy, you could say that he “hates technology”, which would put him in the same category as Jacob. What if the Economist is Jacob, and this whole Jacob vs. Ben battle for the Island is what spilled over into the real world? Not likely – let’s just call the Economist a traditionalist for now.

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Second, Elsa said her employer specialized in “emerging markets”. You could see how the potential applications of all the crazy properties of the Island might make it a very lucrative place for someone who was interested in “emerging markets” – which would help our earlier argument that the Freightors are working for some rival company of Dharma / Hanso (perhaps Widmore?)

Lastly, we see that he has a bracelet fetish (at least for his ladies), since both Elsa and Naomi were seen sporting basically the same jewelry. Although we haven’t seen it on any of the Freightors, that probably makes sense since Frank mentioned that they weren’t in the same class as Naomi – and probably were hired specifically for this Island task, rather than being card-carrying members of the Economist’s team.

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Minkowski. Speaking of the Economist’s team, the Minkowski character is still a puzzle to me. Remember, Minkowski was the person that Jack and Kate talked to on the satellite phone last season and at the beginning of this season. He was also the one that told Faraday to take him off speaker phone, but later was “unable to come to the phone.” Now, we’ve got Frank telling Faraday that if Minkowski picks up the phone, to hang up. Looking at all these details, there’s definitely some mixed signals.

If Minkowski was Ben’s mole (and a traitor), why would he care if he was on speakerphone? If Minkowski is a trustworthy member of the Freightors, why wouldn’t Frank want Faraday to talk to him? And where was he when he couldn’t come to the phone? Something tells me that Minkowski is currently on his way to the Island, is a volatile person (even Frank is afraid of him), and someone to be avoided.


Funky Time. I saved the most complex for last. When I first watched this episode, it seemed pretty clear that there was some “funky time” on the Island. After all, there have been plenty of clues in the past that seemed to point to something being a little “off” in the way time moves on the Island, and the show’s creators have gone out of their way to drop quotes that made you question the concept of time on Lost. We finally seemed to get some confirmation of the “funky time” with Faraday’s stopwatch test with the payload… or did we?

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Let’s review some of the “evidence” of funky time over the years (courtesy of Lostpedia):

  • Ana-Lucia tells Goodwin: "This knife's probably 20 years old. You don't see these anymore, yet here it is, on this island. Weird, huh?"
  • Referring to a source of a radio transmission that consists of a Big Band recording from the 1940's, Sayid says, "It could be coming from anywhere." Hurley responds, "Or any time.”
  • Jack looked for a clock to announce the time of death for Colleen, but he couldn't find one.
  • Dr. Alpert showed Juliet a scan that according to her seems to be the womb lining of a 70 year old but is in fact a 20 year old.
  • The message “Only fools are enslaved by time and space” was playing in the Rave Room.
  • Desmond relives events that have happened in his past in his "Déjà vu" after being knocked out, and has a number of issues with time continuity until he is knocked out again.
  • Richard Alpert tells Juliet, "You're gonna be amazed at how time flies once you're there", referring to the Island.
  • Richard Alpert doesn't seem to age. Ben asks him if he even remembers what a birthday is.
  • Damon Lindelof said “It’s interesting that you should ask about time because… you know… you’re making a basic assumption that they’ve been there, y’know, as long as they think they’ve been there.”
  • The payload arrived at Daniel's position 31 minutes after Regina said it reached the target. Daniel confirmed this by comparing the time on the clock inside the rocket with the time clock he had on the island.

All this seems to point that there is something weird going on with the time, most likely that time on the Island moves slower than it does in the rest of the world. Pretty straight forward right? Not so fast, my friend (I miss you College Gameday).

Although there are a number of verbal clues and “suggestions” about the funky time above, the closest thing we have to something factual is Faraday’s payload experiment. On the other hand, we’ve got a few very concrete statements and events that seem to confirm that the Island is in sync with the rest of the world.

First, Ben told Jack what happened off-the-island during the given timeline: "Your flight crashed on September 22nd, 2004. Today is November 29th. That means you've been on our island for 69 days. Yes, we do have contact with the outside world, Jack. That's how we know that during those 69 days your fellow Americans re-elected George W. Bush; Christopher Reeve has passed away; the Boston Red Sox won the World Series."

The key there is that Ben refers to “today” as a date that corresponds with a date on the outside world. Later, we see Juliet give the exact length of her stay on the island: 3 years, 2 months and 28 days – which again seems to correspond with the date of the outside world seen by Alpert’s newspaper when visiting Juliet’s sister.

But lastly, and most importantly, we have this – Desmond’s printout of the system failure from the Hatch, which brought Oceanic Flight 815 to the Island in the first place… dated September 22, 2004 at 4:16 – the same date and time of the crash for the rest of the world.

If time on the Island were really moving slower, those dates would not match up.

But aside from all the potential red herrings listed above, how do you explain the payload time difference? The most logical explanation seems to be what I will call the “Bubble Theory”.

(Note: since magnetism and electricity were always the last chapters in my science books growing up, I don’t think we ever got them over the course of my entire education – so I really have no idea what I’m talking about or if any of this is possible)


I’m picturing the Island as sitting inside some sort of giant electromagnetic bubble. There’s only one safe way in or out of this bubble. If you attempt to enter or exit anywhere other than this one opening, you bounce off it, have your electric systems go wacky, or burst into flames (just kidding on the last one). If the payload didn’t hit the opening in the bubble, it would continue bouncing around inside the electromagnetic field until eventually it found a way through – it’s during this bouncing where the time is “lost” compared to the Island or the rest of the world (where time is still continuing as normal).

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This would match up nicely with a lot of evidence over the years – Ben telling Michael he has to follow bearing 325 to get off the Island, Faraday warning Frank to leave the Island the exact same way that they came in, and even the old time radio station that Hurley and Sayid heard on the beach. Once the radio signal found its way inside the bubble, it would just keep bouncing around forever, unless it found a way out the same way it came in.

An intriguing variation of this theory would be if there were a number of ways to come into the Island, but you simply had to exit the same way that you came in, or else you suffer some sort of weird side effect of the electromagnetic field. If this were true, although Frank is going to be totally fine leaving the Island, Sayid and Desmond might be in trouble since they probably arrived on a different bearing.

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You could even take it a step further and try to use the Bubble Theory to explain the “funky space” that we’ve seen – if you can somehow break through the Bubble in a place other than the designated hole, it acts as a sort of worm hole, sending you to another place in the world (see: Dharma polar bear in Africa, Africa plane on Island).

This also means that the apparent eternal life of the Others isn’t tied to “funky time” on Island at all… which actually should have been apparent to me a long time ago. After all, Ben (and the Dharmites) have lived there for many years and aged – if it was something intrinsic to the funky time of the Island that caused the Others to look so ageless, one would assume it would have had the same effect on Ben. We’ve also seen both Ben (who ages) and Alpert (who doesn’t age) leave the Island on various missions, so clearly it isn’t tied to never leaving the Island either. It seems as though Alpert’s lack of aging is tied to some other mystery altogether – or just a fun byproduct of being “one with the Island” or BFF with Jacob.


So after all that information overload, where do we stand? Surprisingly, not far from where we started before the episode. We learned that the “battle for the Island” spills over into the real world, that the “funky time” might be nothing more than time lost passing through the electromagnetic field to get to or from the Island, that Ben is seemingly always going to be two steps ahead of everyone else on or off the Island, and that Sayid becomes an Iraqi James Bond with the smoothest looking hair you’ve ever seen once he gets off the Island. It all seemed pretty overwhelming and puzzling upon first viewing, but now I’m feeling okay with “The Economist”.

Bring on next week!

http://facethewoods.com/lost/index.php?topic=254.0

37 comments:

Nick Spangler said...

I'm still not 100% sold that those were two different bracelets on both girls...

Anyone with me?

Hope said...

Maybe Ben couldn't have the surgery off the island because this would put him in too vulnerable of a position for his "enemies" off island to get to him.

TheDon said...

good job b...lee corso would be proud...the bubble theory is a bit confusin but then again it is lost...what do u think about the conversation between miles and hurley where hurley asks if they r there 2 kill them to which miles responds "not yet"...miles said it in front of everyone like not worryin about a damn thing that locke would do 2 him...hmmm..

Rebecca said...

I think Ben couldn't leave the island for surgery because it would be to obvious. He wanted to keep up a "ruse" that he never left the island. If Juliet and others knew he had a tumor it would take some explaining for why he would suddenly feel ok w/ leaving the island for surgery.

Or maybe having a neurosurgen fall from the sky just proved his favor w/ Jacob. By having Jack operate on him on island he maintains/creates an illusion that the island gives you everything you need.

Or maybe both reasons are true.

Anonymous said...

I agree with rebecca above!
Juliet did not know about Ben's off-island travels and Juliet diagnosed his spinal problem. Ben couldn't then leave the island for treatment without Juliet finding out about it.

CJ said...

Nick, I'm with you--I wondered if Sayid took Naomi's bracelet, the way he was looking at it, and then gave it to Elsa. But then again, Elsa is the on who kept mentioning "love" to Sayid, not the other way around, so it seems odd that he would give her a gift like this. The other problem is that the bracelet might be an obvious clue or connection to the Freighters, etc. Why would Sayid be foolish enough to let a piece of "evidence" like that fall into the hands of one working for the sworn enemy, particularly if he was being secretive otherwise about his job? Still thinking out loud here. . .

Brian said...

hope - I like it. Maybe that also ties into why Ben decided to cut communications with the outside world and lie to the Others about it - he was afraid that his "enemies" were getting too close?

rebecca - I also like it! I'm glad you guys are here to figure out the stuff that I give up on figuring out during my posts :)

Jana said...

If these people Sayid is killing off are all connected to the Freightors somehow, why don't they recognize him? Certainly the guy on the golf course, who was a direct target, should have instantly known who he was.

VictorC said...

jana it did seem like the guy in the golf course recognized him. As soon as Sayid revealed who he was the guy was visibly uncomfortable.

But also remember that that event happened before Sayid killed Elsa, so his cover wasn't blown yet.
I'm just wondering why the guy was disturbed upon learning who Sayid was.

There's a theory out there saying that the flashforwards were out of sequence, and that the one with the golfer happened after Elsa was killed, thus explaining why he was so disturbed.
But that still doesn't make sense to me, he should have recognized Sayid immediately. I mean, he's part of the Oceanic 6 and famous afterall.

Mete said...

About the funky time;

Brian, maybe you're blinded by the lies of Ben too..:)

first; it is easy for Ben to pretend as if they are on November 29th and talk about past world events with Jack. Since when do we rely on him?

Second one; it's pretty much the same thing. If island time is slower, putting a man on tape with a paper of 2 months ago in his hand still will be easy for our conspiracy master, Ben...

For the last one; we don't rely on Ben, do we rely on machines? What if that computer's internal clock is synched to normal 24 h earth day? Desmond was too busy entering the numbers, he didn't have to time to go out. Did he know what day it was by himself anyway? HE asked survivors when they are crashed and simply looked for that day on the print outs. And with the hatch blown up they have nothing to compare dates.

And about Daniel it's great to have a physicist on the island cause he can bring some explanation to some well known island mysteries .

annie said...

'when Ben went all purgey on the Dharmites'

ROFLMAO!!!!!!! Thanks, Brian... another great analysis & giggly too!

Brian said...

mete - you're right - I am "trusting" a few sources that could be suspect.

But there's also hard facts like radio communication between the Freightors and the Freighter that I don't think would work if the Island and Freighter were on different timelines (at least according to my understand of how time works, formed largely by the movie "Back to the Future" - it would be like if Marty picked up a phone in 1955 and was talking to someone in 1985, which is pretty outlandish).

Salvar said...

I'm surprised you didn't mention "R.G.". Do we really not know of anyone with those initials?

From Lostpedia I got the suggestion that "R.G." might be Ruth. I don't know if anyone here has heard of "Ruth and Naomi", but I think the pairing is too perfect to be coincidence. Unfortunately the one "Ruth" already in the show doesn't seem right for the part, but I still like the concept. Has Lost had many references to Christian mythology in the past?

Anonymous said...

I like the "bubble theory" as it does seem to sync several events and provide logical explanations, but my question is, if the payload was bouncing around outside the bubble looking for the way in, wouldn't both timers still be showing the same elapsed time?

Matt H said...

I had the bubble theory worked
out, too. Theories like different time speeds or the island being always in the past don't work because we have seen realtime communication between on-island and off-island.

Brian said...

Yeah, it's tricky - but you have to picture the Bubble as a thin layer of space where time is funky - so even though time is the same on both sides of the Bubble, when you go through it, it's temporarily wacky. So if the payload was "bouncing around" inside this thin layer trying to find a way into the Island, it was gaining time faster than either side of the Bubble due to the funky electromagnetic effects... or something like that.

There's definitely something weird about actually going through the Bubble though - which is why they tied down Juliet during her submarine trip to the Island.

Rebecca said...

"super boring wardrobe"
"went all purgey"
"again with the lists – man, the Others are just like my future wife!"
"Zack-Morris-Style-Cell-Phone pager"

Great post Brian, I was cracking up! BTW, based on that statement, your future wife & I would get along great. That epi definitely introduced a lot more for us to think about. Your bubble theory sounds like the best explanation I've heard so far, though I'm still confused by it all.

VictorC said...

Brian I know this isn't related to this episode, but what's your theory on the Black Rock appearing in the middle of the Island, rather than on the shore?
(I'm sorry if this isn't allowed, I'm new to your blog, and yes I love it :)

VictorC said...

This guy has the same bubble theory as Brian, along with some youtube evidence: http://theoriesonlost.blogspot.com/2008/02/time-on-island-all-relative-relatively.html

Anonymous said...

not sure the bubble theory of time explains things. as already posted, if the payload was trying to find a way thru the bubble, time is time! in other words, it would have been reflected on both the payload clock and Faradays' clock as the same time.

Anonymous said...

real sorry to agree with predictions related to Sawyers future death. I think Nile's calling Hurley "tubby" was a sign the writters have a new 'comic relief' guy on the cast to replace the sharp witted humor of Sawyer once he's killed off. Plus, his story line if pretty much resolved given last seasons confrontation with the real Sawyer. Lastly, him now wanting to stay on the island....realizing what Ben said is true about his lack of any future back home may be another indication of his pending demise on-island, especially given Kate returning home at some point.

If this is correct, Sawyer will be missed dearly....he's an awesome character who Josh Holloway plays to perfection.

James said...

Regarding funky time, I'm not sure there has to be any correlation between real-world and island time even if they are out of phase. I keep thinking about Charlotte Staples Lewis (aka CS Lewis). Why that name? CS Lewis is most famous for his Narnia books. Narnia is a world where time flows separately from our world. Between Magician's Nephew and Lion, Witch Wardrobe about 80 years pass in our world, but untold ages pass in Narnia. Then, between LWW and Prince Caspian, only a year or two go by in our world, but 1000s go by in Narnia. Then, between Caspian and Dawn Treader we get another few years in our world, but also only a few years in Narnia. From Dawn Treader to Silver Chair another few years in our world, but almost 50 in Narnia.

Ok, so this is getting long, but if there is funky time on the island, it could be like Narnia's in that the two time streams do not move in synch at the same rate.

mikeintosh said...

Has anyone ever read about the mirror matter theory? It really stretches the mind and might be a little too crazy for network television, but it answers pretty much every unsolved mystery about the island... check it out:

http://mirrormattermoon.blogspot.com/

Randy said...

Salvar - "Christian mythology?"

I respect your commentary, but those two words don't go together in my experience.

Jason - But dude!... How much extra money did you make? :-)

Sven said...

To these guys who beliefe, the island is in future/past and we shouldn trust Bens hints to Jack or the newspaper:

After the planecrash Ben headed to Mikhail who was watching the news about the crash. So the actions were at both places at the same time.

If not, Ben would have known about that plane crash, when it exactly happens and so on, but apparently he did not.

So I am sticking to that "Bubble" Theory. There is something that protects the island and it was not the "Looking Glass" only.

Anonymous said...

If there is a "bubble" and it affects the sunlight, it might also affect the elements and climate. If this is the case, it would explain how Locke knows when the rain will be ending.

Mete said...

James;

that's what I was thinking about.

Sven;

plane crashes at the same time for island and rest of the world, but they aren't "on" the same time. yes like James said, time passes differently like Narnia.. it doesn't happen before or after, and the idea is not purely against to the bubble theory.

An example: there's a different calendar Moslims use: Hicri (hegira) calendar. it begins with Mohammad's travel from somewhere to somewhere, on Sept 20 622 AD. But a Moslim year is not a sun year but a moon year and it is shorter 11 days from the former. That means plane crashed Sep. 22 2004 for you and 7 Şaban 1425 for moslims..:))
At the same time but not on the same "time"

Jack seas sun come up 3 times and thinks 22+3=25 then it must be Sep. 25 for the rest of the world. Don't know how but it is not.

Sven said...

But we aren't talking about different calendars.

Our calendars are based on the earth go around the sun (sun going up and down). And if we base our "calculation" of time at the island and in the rest of the worlds on this fact, there should be no difference.

The moslems (your example) calculate the time in moon days or whatsoever, and if they would do the same on the island, there should still not be any differences.

And Narnia (dude, what a horrible movie ^^) is only "connected" to our world between this wardrobe (at least this is what i remember). Because of this, time is not dependent on what happens at the other side. There is nothing like a plain that can crash and fall into their world.
But in Lost, the island and the world is significantly connected (falling from the sky - the real world- into that island - the not so real thing :D), and because of this, time is too.

At least in my opinion ;)

Chris said...

I figure the time difference is more of a relativistic effect. Signals travelling at/near light speed are unaffected while much slower moving objects are.

Radio communications would seem to be realtime, while travelling to/from the island itself would take longer than it should. Which is why the boat said the package had arrived while they had yet to receive it.

Anonymous said...

it would seem that the mirrow matter theory is essentially what LOST is based on...at least appears that way from the perspective of a lay person.

Sawyer's Optician said...

Anonymous said...
"real sorry to agree with predictions related to Sawyers future death. I think Nile's calling Hurley "tubby" was a sign the writters have a new 'comic relief' guy on the cast to replace the sharp witted humor of Sawyer once he's killed off. Plus, his story line if pretty much resolved given last seasons confrontation with the real Sawyer"

I have to disagree with this statement on so many levels.

First - Sawyer is way more important to Lost than comic relief.

Second - his character is undergoing a transformation, more sensitive to the feelings of others (re: Hurley)more willing and able to take on leadership roles etc.

Third - to even suggest that "Miles" can replace him, because he made a joke about Hurley's weight is just sad. The charcter Miles is interesting for different reasons. But sorry, him and his little pre-adolescent fuzz-stache is just not sexy. End of story.

Also:
Rebecca said...
"super boring wardrobe"
"went all purgey"
. . . "Zack-Morris-Style-Cell-Phone pager
I also laughed my head off. Espcially the Zack Morris comment. Thanks Brian the pop culture expert.

Anonymous said...

glad to hear your perspective Sawyer's Optic - hope u r right.

Eric said...

Hey! I make lists too. They make everything very convenient to remember. My wife hates them, but she uses my lists when she needs to...

As for the funky time thing, I think it is a straight time lag. The freighter reported that the payload had hit the target long before it actually had, so they must have received information to that effect. My guess is when you go through the bubble you go back 31 minutes or whatever. It has nothing to do with the bouncing.

Just my thoughts.

webuffy said...

Ben-Locke-Jack musing. I know I am repeating stuff ...

Ben theory #1 - Play the Harp Dude your Days as King are Numbered -----

Up until now, I have agreed that probably Ben has fallen from grace with the Island Spirit (Jacob?), and as a type of King Saul he is being replaced by David, aka Locke. If this analogy has already been made, pls excuse!

As the old testament story goes ... God's prophet Samuel tells King Saul that he is being replaced because he disobeyed God. Since Samuel was the one who annointed Saul as King in the first place - Saul knows it's true. Saul eventually learns that David will be the new king and there is nothing he can do about it - you can't win against God.

But even before David is King, because of his victory killing a very large loud-mouthed enemy called Goliath with a single stone from a slingshot, the people are starting to look to David as a leader. (David chops off Goliath's head and brings it back to town on a spear.) The people sing songs about how great David is. This really really pisses King Saul off. So even though he knows he is being deposed by God himself, he is going to try and kill David anyway.

So like King Saul, King Ben seems to know his time is up and he becomes extremely jealous of Locke. Ben attempts to humiliate Locke as weak so the people will not follow him - but that backfires when Locke recovers his strength and delivers his dead Dad (Goliath) to the camp in victory. And like King Saul, in a last ditch effort to fight against God/Island Spirit, Ben tries to kill Locke. But as we see, Locke was miraculously saved by the island, as was David by the hand of God. David was made King.

Okay that is pretty straightforward. We have only to wait for Ben to die or go away and Locke to be crowned King. Wait a minute. This is Ben we are talking about.

Ben theory #2 - Get out your Suit and Passport B.L. - Your Plan to put Locke in charge has worked perfectly

Maybe the whole jealous thing with Ben has been a huge act on his part to get Locke into place as the on-island leader all along. Doesn't this sound like Ben?

With new evidence from Sayid's flashforward we seem to see:
-- Ben off-island and still in charge.
-- Ben seems to be working to save and protect the island and killing it's enemies. At least that is how I am interpreting it right now.
-- Ben is able to somehow save Sayid's "friends" (?) and uses this power to blackmail Sayid into doing his dirty work. Ben is ever the master-manipulator.

Old Random Facts to remember:
-- Ben has been devoted to the Island Spirit since he was a boy. At least we think that. I still wonder if he is somehow holding it/Jacob hostage - but that is another theory.
-- Ben killed his own father and committed mass murder - supposedly for the island. It looks like he has done everything in his power to protect it.
-- He seems to know way more about its mysteries than anyone we have seen so far.

To support the first theory of Ben being ousted completely, we have built a case against Ben thinking that he has offended the island - but is the evidence strong enough for the island to banish it's biggest believer forever? I mean if Ben is still alive in the future then the island LET him live. The Island needs him still!

So if the real plan has been to get Locke into place as the on-island leader all along, this may be what we are seeing happen. By allowing this, maybe Ben is only obeying the command of the Island/Jacob. As Ben has said - a huge threat is coming against the island. Maybe the island has told Ben to fight the threat he must leave the island to save it. But before Ben goes he has to have a new leader in place. In order to have this happen, certain things must happen first.

First the new leader needs to be fully convinced of the island's power and ready to follow. Second he/she needs to get their feet wet as a leader and have the people see them as a leader. For the others, she/he needs to be seen as the leader chosen by the island. This takes time. In Locke's case, I guess he first has to be healed of paralysis, willing to punch numbers in an underground hatch for vague reasons (a huge leap of faith) and he has to kill boars and rescue people and see lots of visions.

But last season with the dramatic delivery of his organ-swiping dead dad to the Others camp he proved to himself, as well as the Others that he could be a leader. Now he continues to lead with his devoted Locke-Losties going to the barracks away from the evil freightor-people. Sounds like a new set of Others to me.

(Personally, I was shocked that this group included Sawyer. I really did not see that happening. )

In any case, with the killing of Naomi and the blowing up of the sub, I think Locke's devotion to the island/Jacob and it's protection can't be questioned. You could not of hand-picked a better guy for the job.

Maybe Ben was trying all along to find a replacement and until the island brought down Flight 815 he had no hopes.

As far as Ben shooting Locke - it's as Brian thought - Ben knows everything about Locke - he knows he doesn't have a kidney so he shot him in that location of his body. Ben also knows that the island heals those it chooses. He knows this will make Locke an even bigger hero - even being shot cannot kill him.

What the island has for Locke and these new people to do is a mystery. I mean I don't see Locke participating in mind-altering video torture, cult-like meetings and branding outcasts, medical and psychological experiments or Egg testing. I guess it would have to be a good thing or somehow Locke has to believe it's for the greater good or he wouldn't want to do it.

With Locke protecting team-island, Ben can leave. Ben can use his special knowledge and powers from the island and he and he alone is poised to go off-island and help kill the island's enemies one-by-one.

Why he has to use Sayid to do it though seems very strange. This says to me that he may not be in with the greater Dharmites anymore. If he was, couldn't he of used all the people they already have in place to get rid of their enemies? Or not. Not sure about that part of it at all. I just think using Sayid is odd. Although he is such a super actor that seeing him in the future storyline means he is not written off, thank goodness.

(BTW, With Sayid do we see yet another Lostie who is stuck in their fate? Will he always be doing someone's dirty work to save his friends?)

Jack and Locke - The Island finally made it's mind up? -----

Finally, I think from the beginning we have been seeing the island test and decide on it's future leader and it came down to Jack and Locke. At some point we see Kate, Sayid and Sawyer - but it has come down to Jack and Locke consistently. Now the island has finally decided that between Jack and Locke - Locke has won. Through many trials, Locke seems to have come out as the unnatural leader of those who really want to stay.

I really think the island did not know which to choose at first. Jack is a natural leader and a doctor - both good things. But clearly Jack really wanted off the island in the end - he was willing to let Ben die to leave and rescue everyone. I think around that time the choice for Locke was made - but it wasn't always set in stone. At least the writers weren't sure! :-)

As far as the spinal surgery, maybe Ben was told by Jacob to allow Jack to do it? Ben did not seem at all scared about Jack doing it. I mean from what we know, on or off-island, Jack is one the best spinal surgeons around. Why not have him do it there since Jack is so good?

It could simply be as we have thought, that Ben did need Jack to perform the surgery to prove his strong connection to the Island/Jacob, but I think it was more that Ben was following orders because it was the final test of Jack for the island leadership position. Ben told Jack that he really "wanted Jack to want to help him". Jack's whole time there with Ben may of been the final experiment. He used Juliet to get to Jack personally. He really wanted Jack to willingly want to become a part of the Others. At that point I remember when I was almost convinced Jack was the next leader. I mean I saw that football scene and I knew Jack had gone over to the dark side. But Jack was not willing to go all the way.

Jack's determination to get off the island and rescue others (Jack's ever-present fate) was more than powerful than the lure of the island and its power and mystery. After all is said and done, Jack did not want to stare into his own soul and see things about himself - which I think the island demands. Instead of grappling with tough questions such as why he saw his dead father on the island and how Sawyer could of spoken to him and a thousand other coincidences - he just wants off the blasted rock and has to save everyone too.

Meanwhile it wasn't Jack's time yet to leave and save everyone since the island had Locke blow up the sub. Sorry Jack, not yet.

From what we now know from the Sayid flashforward, Ben has major enemies he needs destroyed to save the island. What could Ben's other motivations possibly be? He has no other passions other than the island. That means he still loves the island and is working for it - not against it. It's no surprise with the island's properties that people want to exploit it. It's also no surprise that Ben has made lots of enemies himself. So if the island still wants him helping - it has to help Ben kill his personal enemies. I can see some relatives of the Purgites banding together in a sworn blood pact to kill Benjamin Linus. I mean his mass murdering secret just may of been leaked.

Ben is a mastermind! Of course he has a secret closet. His whole personality is a secret in the closet!!!! So is the freaking island for that matter.

Ben is always prepared for anything. If he has to leave he is ready to go anywhere. I do think Ben has not left the island since he was a boy because he had Alpert etc to recruit and bring people there. Why would he need to leave the island? If he had left, I think we would of heard something by now from the others that Ben left the island for awhile or was missing for a few weeks or something. But again, would he really need to ever leave?

Unless he has a twin.

Whew. Sorry this post is so epic.

- web buffy

webuffy said...

As you can see I have no epic comments at all about the bubble theory which is such an awesome well thought out theory and explains alot.

I can only say that the real time comms. is not a problem for me in so far as a contradiction - especially since we are always hearing that the jumbo iphones need to be "recalibrated"...

- wb

webuffy said...

btw - I think that the bracelets are the same. I know my jewelry... :-)
We will now need to understand who R.G. is - yet another mystery.

- webuffy

Sawyer's Optician said...

webuffy --
Totally enjoyed your locke/jack/ben musings. I like the King Saul/ David angle. Also thanks for bringing back the twin idea. The twin or cloning thing was there very early - when Walt was taken from the raft, and hinted at a few other times since then. I like it.
Ben = master manipulator, definitely.