There were definitely parts I liked, there were definitely parts that seemed to drag. The ironic thing is that I feel like the first two episodes have been focusing on things that I really didn't care about (Sayid's "trap" this week) - but when they get back to the good stuff (Ben and Jack) it's freaking awesome. At any rate, here are my instant thoughts:
- You were right, I was wrong. There's definitely something between Juliet and Ben. I saw some sparks this week, which makes Juliet's "sadness" last week all the more puzzling.
- I have this creeping suspicion that Sun killed Jae. The episode seemed to show us that Sun isn't the frail "glass ballerina" that we thought she was. She isn't above lying, cheating, and stealing (okay, we never saw her steal - besides Jae's heart, of course).
- There is more question than ever if Sun's baby is Jin's or Jae's. Jae's death definitely could have been the straw that broke the Jin's back, and convinced him to get on Flight 815 to America. Thirty or so days later, Jin finds out she's preggo. I think that math adds up for either to be the potential father?
- What is the purpose of having Sawyer and Kate bust up rocks and move them? There are clearly enough Others to do the work much quicker. I wonder if they're just trying to break them down?
- Episode One = Kate in Shower. Episode Two = Kate Bending Over in Dress. Season Three = BEST SEASON EVER :)
- So... maybe Juliet isn't part of the "Rebel Dharmite" group, but Alex clearly is... and so is her boy from the cage in episode one.
- If there was any question about "if the outside world exists", it was totally blown out of the water at the end of the episode. For all the crazy stuff we've seen on the past two years of Lost, seeing footage of the Red Sox winning the world series was the most surreal. It's like the fantasy is gone... which kinda makes me sad.
- Ben has lived on the Island his whole life - does that make him a second generation Dharmite?
- Ben doesn't want to leave the Island, but he says he will take Jack back to the rest of the world. Does he have the ability to come and go as he pleases?
- The more I see of the Others, the more it screams "crazy cult!" They seem to be like a religious colony full of people who blindly follow rules.
- This is two weeks in a row where the episode title seemed to have little or nothing to do with the episode. Weird.
Ready? Set? Comment!
68 comments:
Hi Brian - good reactions, I feel mostly the same.
Maybe the title "glass ballerina" doesn't actually refer to Sun herself? Maybe it's meant to be the symbol reminding us that even sweet, lovable Sun has secrets and lies... that little girl got her poor innocent maid fired!
I just wonder how Ben/Henry didn't know that they had a boat.
Shouldn't it have been seen by them at some point. Kelvin worked on it for a while, so surely he could have been followed by others or at least seen on the monitors.
I'm more inclined to call the "others" the "good guys" and I don't know why. There was another instance where a variation of that phrase was used, right before Sun shot the woman on the boat.
Tonight I learned that Kate and Sawyer for sure didn't know each other prior to the crash. Since the beginning of the show I've thought they did. Oh well.
Predictions for next week: Sayid and Co. march through the jungle and meet CFL again who gives some more insight as to what is going on. The three from the hatch bring us to meet Smokey/the Monster for the first time. Jaws drop, episode ends.
This episode was definitely interesting to see Sun acting what before now would have been "out of character." We can see now that Sun is capable of defending herself in any way necessary(lying to getting her maid fired, shooting the woman on the boat). Not a glass balerina at all. I don't think she killed Jae, not in a direct way, anyway. But knowing he could never have her likely drove him to suicide.
Even though seeing the Red Sox clips blows some of the fantasy-esque elements of the island away, the preview for next week seemed to hint to a return of the more bizzare, sci-fi roots of Lost season 1. Woot.
"This is two weeks in a row where the episode title seemed to have little or nothing to do with the episode. Weird."
It had everything to do with the episode, re: Sun. She lied as a kid, she lied as an adult, and Sayid required her to lie some more in the service of his trap plan. The Others seem to get reams of intel on the Losties, which is what ole whatshername was relying on when she told Sun she wouldn't shoot.
Re: Boat (for Anon): Desmond's boat was hidden in a cove. The Others didn't consider Kelvin/Desmond to be of interest since they weren't actively trying to find them/they kept pushing the button.
I think we're suffering through some molasses-slow patches that will set up some big-time "aha" moments down the road. Least I hope so.
I agree that Ben should have known about the boat and I mentioned that before. It was there for three years before the plane crash. It doesn't add up.
As for Jae's death... the fact that he was holding the pearls that Sun rejected leads me to believe it was suicide. I think this was one of the best sequences of flashbacks in a while, especially how Jae knew exactly why Jin was beating him even though Jin DID NOT know why he was beating him. That is really good writing.
As for the title, it seemed to reference the fact that other people suffer when Sun lies (the maid, Jae, and potentially Jin if he had been injured during a gunfight).
I think everyone knew that Jack would find out about the Red Sox. His father having met Sawyer is one of the chief coincidental "small world" events from prior to them arriving on the island (that and Jack knowing Desmond before finding him in the swan station). The way Alex was dressed, Ben having world series footage that is barely a month old... they obviously have as much contact with the outside world as they want to, which means somebody is helping to supply it to them. Perhaps this is how Penny Widmore eventually finds the island, along with the boat transponder.
I also wonder if "Carl" is simply Alex's boyfriend who brought to the island, but wasn't given permission to do so. They can leave whenever they want, it makes as much sense to assume that some of them could sneak other people on to the island if they wanted to.
So with the big question being answered as to whether or not Ben and friends can leave the island and have access to the outside world, we have to wonder what Jack could do for them that would be so helpful that he would allow him to leave... and would Jack leave without the rest of the crash survivors? (I'd guess no, but if Matt Fox gets some movie offers...)
I like the theory about all the people who have been kidnapped from the main group having had hallucinations. It's implied Walt had psychic abilities, Jack saw his father, Kate saw the horse, Sawyer thought the boar was a person. We don't know about the other children or the flight attendant, but there is a particular reason as to who is on the list and is kidnapped. We also have to wonder how they knew Aaron would be of any use to them before Claire even delivered him.
I'd hazard a guess that that all of the original Dharma research collapsed and left two things in it's abscence - potential dangers with the magnet in the swan hatch and the cerberus security system, and the remnants of the "social utopia" experiment. Michael Emerson is 52, maybe they are passing off Ben as a character in his early 40s since Mr. Emerson looks much younger than his age, but that would still mean that he has been on the island since the early to mid 1960s.
The Hanso exposed video mentioned "thirteen years ago" talking about Russia vs. USA nukes race which would be 1962. Perhaps the people there now are the offspring of people who went to the island to avoid nuclear attack, even before the Dharma initiative kicked into action in the 1970's.
Also interesting is the "your country" comment when talking to Jack. He doesn't identify himself as American, which makes sense if he has always lived on the island. But what about that "Minnesota Metallurgy" prop photo floating around the net? Is there even a shred of truth to the back story he concocted when he captured by Sayid?
More questions than answers, as always. Next week should be entertaining.
Sun lied to Jin.... as he lied to her dad about the Ballerina. The glass ballerina is her bald friend. It definaetly did have something to do with the episode... just not in the deeper ways of last season. It's not something you could research before hand, and there was no double meaning.
There ARE different groups on the island.... Kelvin called the others "hostiles" they obviously were against him, and he was employed by Dharma! He was trying to get OFF the island, the others are now. Then you have Alex and Carl... There may be three.. and with Kelvin, that's 4.
These guys were on the island for their entire life. If it's 2004 and the project started in 1970... the age for being born on the island would be 34, and obviously many of the others are older than this.
I almost feel as if they tie more to the islands "pre-dharma" days... just a hunch... They may have been part of the dharma experiements.. but they may or may not have been the scientists...
But just because Ben says his entire life has been on the island(and doesn't Juliet hint at this in E1?)... that doesn't mean a) that all the others were always there and b) that theyr'e lying. we know they're capable.
I do think it's interesting that despite their research, they did not realize that Sun could shoot... I do think that it's possible that she may have killed her bald "lover" because she wanted to keep her "secret".
Terrific episode overall....some highlights include...
Confirmation that Sawyer is particularly intuitive in his assesement of Others strengths and weakness - apparently, he came onto Kate in an attempt to measure their abilities and to get their rifle (plus severe case of the "hots").
It appears that the Others are good guys from a couple of scenes shown especially Ben's with Jack...however, they may be purely devious people trying to further deceive Lostees - my bet is they are "good"; not evil.
But why teat the people as such. Is this their "way" and why? As someone said.. "cult"
or do they have an important role?
I'm also not sure that I agree that something is going on between julia and Ben... not in a positive way.. I got the opposite impression.. I got the impression that the woman who was shot by Sun had something going on with him.... and that Julia and Ben were cordial at best.
I'm not at all convinved yet that the Others are good, although I do think they think they are good. They have done a little too much of the ends justifying the means for me to believe that they are really good (such as stringing Charlie up!).
I'm also not yet inclined to believe Ben is telling the truth about having lived his whole life on the Island (or much of anything else at this point). This whole episode focused on lying to protect secrets and get what you want, so it would make sense to me that Ben was lying too.
But you also noticed that Sawyer seems to think that Julia would have shot Kate in a heartbeat. If he's right, she may be one of the most devious of the "others".
Concerningp there being 'something else' between HGI/Ben and Julia. If they had a relationship, it was in the past. The feelings I get from their interactions isn't one of a present relationship, but possibly dealing with a previous one that may not have ended well.
If they really are "cult" like wouldn't it make logical sense that the reason they are interested in children, Walt, etc. is because the young and innocent would be a lot easier to brainwash. It doesn't explain what they want with Jack, Kate, and Sawyer, but maybe if they are able to break these three mentally (anyone notice Jack's eyes during the last shot after he saw the World Series footage, as if either his mind was just blown or he was seriously considering Ben's offer) to somehow join them it makes it easier for "The Others" to be able to go back to whatever it is they're doing on the island before the crash.
Great reaction thoughts guys;
Am I wrong in saying that Sun shot and killed an unarmed woman? Now I know a lot of people seem to be questioning Ben and co's morals and ethics ['cult' is being thrown around], yet - again, we've been shown that our 'normal, law obiding, good' losties are far from angels...
I'm really interested in Bens 'I've lived here all my life' - for me I just wonder how much HE actually DOES know. If he hasn't been off the island, perhaps he has only been drip fed what is needed - it also suggests that there is 'someone/a group of someones' above him, pulling HIS strings - which is interesting..
I also re-watched the first episode and wonder if Ethan is Juliets brother [no evidence really, but is there an anagram in Juliet Rom?] :P
Solid ep, by far the best Jin/Sun flashback episode to date!
I actually missed to trailer for the next episode so I'm going to have a look on youtube now! :D
I said in my last comment that I think the others are children of the Dharma and I believe that now more than ever. I also believe that they, as a result of being children of Dharma may be affected by something (reason to take medicine) that was passed on from their parents.
As for Ben and Juliet and Jae and the enforcer, I had a feeling last night that they were not lovers, but brothers and sisters. There was a kiss on the Cheek, not the lips. Perhaps this is the reason they cannot have children, maybe they are one big sterile family!
It still doesn't make too much sense yet as to why they are playing with Jack, Sawyer and Kate...
I had a feeling last night that the show would ultimately end with some leaving the island and some staying, but hopefully that is a ways away.
Sun may have seemingly shot an unarmed woman, but remeber what the survivors have been thru, attacks kidnapings, threats, and the like. She was in danger, facing the enemy who severly under estimated what she was capable of. The others should have known how far she can go to protect herself.
I like the idea of Ben/HGI beeing drip fed information. He may not be in charge or even know the "truth" about the goings on of the island. He still creeps me out, and it gave me the willies when it showed him watching those monitors.
I don't think I will ever trust a word Ben/HGI says. Even more so with the Lost experience vids saying something along the lines of stick to your stories even as the people are dying. Not much room for trust even if you ignore it.
With the boat, I guess it's possible they wouldn't have known about it due to any number of things that may never be explained. But what about CFL, she seems to have scouted the whole island, at least whole circumference of it based on the maps that Sayid took from her.
CFL should have seen the boat at some point, but would still not know of the Camp/Club in the middle due to it being in the dark territory.
But I think that leads to over thinking something with little meaning to the show.
Can't wait for whatever is next.
(gekco)
Ohhhh nothing ever gets cleared up on this show!! Usually I'm not one for wack-a-doo theories.. but wasn't part of the initiative tests having to do with extending life expectancy?? If so, here's my submission. Juliette is .. oh around 80 yrs old... just doesn't look it. When Benry was whining that he didn't get soup made for him, I took it as at one time, Ben was cared for/trained by Juliette like Jack is now (perhaps from a baby forward as he's been on the island all his life)... also explains her older musical choices and also points to the comment in the 1st episode about who she was "a long time ago". Perhaps they all just aren't aging, and if they leave the island, they do. Perhaps that's why Benry needs Jack to "change his atti... perception" and DO something for him at the "right" time. Maybe something Jack can do, will stop the failed experiment and everyone will be able to leave, thus Benry saying he'd take Jack home himself. Juliette perhaps stayed behind after the initiative failed, because she had to... pehaps she took the treatment that was given to the kids as well...
Ok I'll stop.. I obviously need to stop having wine while watching this show...
Hey trixie, have you read 'The Third Policeman' by any chance? Just, if you haven't, you've basically described a specific place in that book - where people don't age - though I wont say too much incase anyone was wanting to read it - it's funny as I'm currently on the last chapter! :D
And in response to this;
"Sun may have seemingly shot an unarmed woman, but remeber what the survivors have been thru, attacks kidnapings, threats, and the like. She was in danger, facing the enemy who severly under estimated what she was capable of. The others should have known how far she can go to protect herself."
Yeah I'm not arguing that, no doubt in the same situation many of us would have done the same thing [of course, Sun thinks she was attacked by these 'others']
But anyway, my point was to "be careful when judging 'the others' morals and ethics" [not aimed at anyone, just a general point], we still know very little about their 'motives' and past experiences, perhaps they are enduring similar experiences, with these [if they even exist] savage others....
I think the rock busting was all a setup for some purpose related to sawyer and kate. If they would build a fake camp they would easily build a fake chain gang. I think Alex's questioning of Kate was too conveeeenient, especially since now we see that it was her boyfriend who was trying to escape. Ben watching monitors of them talking for me confirms that they are learning how they will respond in preparation for something.
They will clearly kill at the drop of a hat so there must be a purpose for keeping sawyer and kate alive and togther and tempting them with Alex and the boyfriend.
I may be over-assuming their mastery of events and manipulation, if they didn't know about the boat they aren't perfect.
I still think that they steer clear of the crash side of the island because of Smokey, its the only thing they are truly scared of that can find them.
Sara-
The Red Sox were behind 3-0 to the Yankees in the American League Championship series. They then won 4 straight to win that series, and another 4 straight to sweep the World Series. So all Ben meant was that they went on to win 8 straight games to win the World Series.
long time reader- first time poster.
Sun didn't shoot an unarmed woman in cold blood or even intentionally. I believe that she heard people around the boat and got extremely nervous. Then, as the woman was approaching Sun some one started a motor. This caused Sun to react and so she shot the lady.
I woudln't hold that against Sun as I am sure we would all react that way in her situation (especially as she was pregnant).
Plane ticket to LA from Austrailia....$1200
Drinks in the airport bar....$8
The look on Sun's face when Jin admitted he can understand english... priceless
This episode was good, not great, it did lag a bit... the thing that surprised me was how sayid ususally knows everything, is perfect with planning and such, and was completely taken by surprise by the Others...
Does it bother anyone else that the Others know EVERYTHING about the survivors?? we know the two spies, ethan and the other dude, did not get that much info. And even with contact with the outside world, there is no way they can gather that much info at once about a bunch of people from all around the world. They know way too mcuh for ppl that they have lived with for 70 days...there is something behind the others, supporting them. i dont think Hanso or the Dharma initiative is done on the island. There is someone still working with the others, someone big thats gving them all the info they need.
Lastly, i think Ben may be lying about living on the island his entire life...
as always great post brian...
First, i dont know for sure but dont the Dharma initiative videos say they were made in 1981 at the end? This would be way after when Ben could have been born.
Second, I think Sawyer has no purpose but to make Kate do what the others want. And possibly Kate is only there to get Jack to do what the others want. I think this cause Sayid said he was going to take two hostages, one to get the other to do what he wants. It seems to make sense that this is why they took Sawyer and Kate and really have no other intention with them.
Last, does anyone have any theories about how the end of season two relates to how the others communicate with the outside world.
Sun didn't kill her... one of the descriptions of an upcoming upisode says that they ask jack to do an emergency surgery... I'm guessing that it's to help coleen.
And Sun shot her in self defense.
Whoa, now. The title definitely related to the episode. The Glass Ballerina breaking was symbolic have SUn's innocence lost. It also shattered our perception of her as the audience.
Sarah...
No.. they were down 3 games to 1 to the Yankees in the championship series.. they had to win 3 games straight from the yankees, then they swept the Cardinals in 4.
Down 3-1 and won 7 straight to take the world series... Ben has it right.
I think Ben has been here his total life. It seems to me the signs say that people were on this island before Dharma got here. I think the event 16 years ago that infected all of Reausseau's crew killed the "real" Dharma folks as well ... the kids surivied maybe because they were products of genetics tests. The same tests that caused the plague in the first place.
Hey... know what? Sawyer and Kate are working an archeological site.
There have been stories that the first 6 episodes are to do with the others, and the rest will reveal bits about the history and mythology of the island.
Note the 4 toed foot. Yes.. look at the roped off areas.. it looks like an archeolgical dig.
Sara,
Ben was right, the Red Sox had to win 8 straight games. Down 0-3 to the Yankees they won 4 straight to GO to the World Series and 4 straight against the Cardinals to WIN the World Series.
Do you think there can be more than one island? One where the plane crashed and one where the others, Jack, Kate and Sawyer are on. What got me thinking this was when the others found out there was a boat, they suddenly became worried about being found. Since being found didn't seem to concern them until they found out the survivors had this boat makes me think maybe they're on a near by island.
How can anyone say that the glass ballerina had nothing to do with the episode. It had everything to do with it. Suns deceptions... it's the very heart.
"No.. they were down 3 games to 1 to the Yankees in the championship series.. they had to win 3 games straight from the yankees, then they swept the Cardinals in 4."
That is incorrect. The Yankees were up 3 games to none on the Red Sox. In game 4, David Ortiz hit a game winning homerun. Boston went on to win 4 straight from the Yanks to win the ALCS, then swept the Cards. Look it up.
Not to pick a fight ... but if the Yankees were up 3 games to none, weren't they also (later) up 3 games to 1?
Okay, maybe my comment about "the episode titles have had nothing to do with the episodes" was a little too harsh. It had some relation to the episode... but not much. Yes, we started out by seeing a glass ballerina breaking. The glass ballerina represents Sun... and she's breaking?
No, the glass ballerina first showed us that Sun was willing to lie, but it could have been anything breaking - a vase, a mirror, a TV, whatever. I guess that's what I was getting it. The glass ballerina itself had no deeper meaning to it. Far too simple for my liking.
Good stuff as always people.
Something I remembered. When Ben is first captured by the losties, locke offers him a book to read, i can't remember who it is, but i remember that ben said "no stevan king?"
Then, in the book club, they're reading Carrie by stevan king, and someone says something about how ben wouldn't like it. I know it's a small thing, but it's just kind of contradictory.
Man, this show has so many layers. You all have mentioned EVERY piece of dialog and action in this episode! I'm so impressed.
I'm just really bothered right now in how CFL could know the island so well but not know more about the Others. How come they don't seem to know/care about her? How come she is still walking free? Weird.
An interesting thing to think about: what does "cooperating" mean for the Others when they are talking to Jack? What do they want from him?
F#@K the Red Sox.
Brian.....I can't flippin wait for your deeper meaning guess for the upcoming episode (Further Instruction)
I think that the others are going to bring the boat back to camp and try and have Jack patch up the woman that Sun shot. I think this is going to be the beginning of a rift between Jack and Sawyer/Kate.
Did anyone else notice that Sayid HAD A MAP ON THE BOAT!?!?! WITH THE ISLAND ON IT? What the hell? Why on Earth isn't that the biggest piece of info they've gotten?
hermano;
RE: Sayids map -
Map
I think they're Rousseau's Maps -
Here's the translated version for anyone interested. I've discussed many times [elsewhere] that it's weird that CFL drew a 'side ways view' map - as opposed to a 'Birds Eye View' one. For me, that map - was drawn BEFORE she came onto the island Although I suppose she is 'crazy' lol
Hey I've just been thinking, presumable Jack is pretty high profile - image the news report after the 815 crash about Jack - "Jack quickly qualified as a spinal surgeon at St Sebastian hospital, he went to Australia to retrieve his father"
Juliet could just be blagging everything, she may have gotten Jacks 'file' ([and the names of Sawyer, Kate and Hugo] - Kate Hugo and Jack are all high profilers)from 'the news'!! :o
Perhaps they don't have contact with the outside world....Perhaps they just have ABC :D
Sawyer is looking so damn hot! His eyes are gorgeous.
I loved everything about this episode except the Sun and Jin stuff.
I made a quiz for this episode that those here might enjoy. It has 20 questions so I hope you were paying attention :-)
Lost Season 3 Trivia
Frances-
I didn't see Ben's comment about Stephen King as contradictory. I read him as making a private joke about the fact that he didn't like Stephen King, as he was being offered one of the classics of world literature, and a difficult book, at a time when escapist fiction might have been more appropriate.
i'm surprised that there isn't more discussion about what ben said to juliette...
i don't see the love angle at all.
i took ben's comment, "you never brought me soup," to mean that he was once a captive (or at least under scrutiny) like jack is.
now that he's come up through the ranks, this makes more sense.
think about it, the awkwardness could be b/c once juliette was taking care of a prisoner, but now that prisoner has become the powerful leader of the others.
it could even potentially play off of the juliette being 80 years old factor, too if she was taking care of ben when he was younger, and now he's all grown up and bossing her around.
Love this site
Check these out and fall deeper into the plot. Specualte away!
www.hansolegal.com
www.hansoadoptions.org
www.mackthompsonlaw.com
These were passed to me by a friend of mine who google Ben's name
http://www.bcero.net/uploads/posts/thumbs/1160746105_bm.jpg
I looooved this second episode. Specially the finale and finding out more about Sun and Jin. Thats why this show is so appealing for everyone, you can find love stories, drama, action, punches, guns, plots, etc. Things are sure going slow but we are getting lots of answers.
Ramdom thoughts:
-They are trying to break Kate & Sawyer for sure
-I dont think Sawyer would be that DUMB to talk about their plans being locked up on a cage at the risk of having cameras taping them...he wants them to think he doesnt know, I bet 100$ on that
-Ben & Juliet had something beyond a friendship for sure...family? lovers? friends with special rights? :P
-If Sun shoot that "other", there are chances she may had been involved on Jaes jumping off the window or balcony (they never showed it) but maybe it was her father because he would know Jin wouldnt kill him
-How the heck did the others got to Sayids boat? Did they have another boat I didnt see or what?
AJ,CR
People, sorry to post again but theres a statement from Alvar Hanso himself on http://www.thehansofoundation.org, looks like he was rescued or something from Thomas Wittelwerks imprisonment thanks to his daughter Rachel Blake...check it out...did anyone mentioned this already?
AJ, CR
I'd be willing to bet these websites are fake:
www.hansolegal.com
www.hansoadoptions.org
www.mackthompsonlaw.com
I don't see the ABC disclaimer anywhere on them, and they all have Google Ads. Seems pretty out of character for an "official Lost website."
I'd agree 100% with Brian, those websites don't look at all like the others ABC used in the Lost Experience, if you run whois on them you get some company in Arizona. I'd be willing to bet that someone is popularizing them to make money off of selling the googloe ads and is sending the sites to Lost sites everywhere.
To Jack: "... and if you listen to me, if you trust me, if you do what I tell you, when the time comes I will take you there. I will TAKE you home." - Benjiman Linus, November 21, 2004.
---
In Alvar Hanso's numbers revealed video he comments to the Dharma initiates how before they (the newbies) get sent to a top secret facility (the island) he makes reference that they will go through "induction counseling and survival training". Of course that could just mean "here's a pamphlet and a box of matches." But as some of you have been thinking what if Jack or Kate or Sawyer are going through a similer procedure. Maybe it has to do with the One True Way or Dharma. Possibly all of The Others do or have gone through it at some time. Alex was asking Kate about Carl. And when Kate told her that it was only her and Sawyer in the cages, she replied "___not even supposed to be in that cage." Now I couldn't hear exactly what Alex said at the ___, but it could have been "you're" or he's... "not even supposed to be in that cage." Does she know from experience or observation? As people have already pointed out Ben makes a comment to Juliet how she never made him soup (granted that could be a relationship issue or a bad reference to the Matrix). With that however, has anyone considered Ben could be pre-Dharma rather than one of their offspring. On one of the intros the voice says something to the effect of "People have been finding their way to the island over the ages..." And even though Ben has "lived on the island his whole life" perhaps Ben was saved by the Dharmites before the Initiative failed;) Maybe a similer way that Alex was saved/taken from CFL. But I really only say that to counter some of the other theories.
As for Kate, I think it is possible they got to her in the way they got to Michael and the way Ben is trying to get to Jack. Making deals to get them to carry out specific tasks. We still might see flashbacks as to what happened to her after her breakfast with Ben.
As for the rock breaking,the ground pounding/packing, the stringed off area, looks like a basic construction site to me. More homes perhaps, fascilities for whatever purpose. But definitely not an archeology site.
Also it would seem that not only did the others not know about the sailboat but about Desmond either. Which leads me to belive they really don't seem to care what goes on in the Swan hatch. If they did it should have been obvious to them as to what Kelvin was up to; repairing the boat without Desmond's knowledge. But more importantly the Others are not all knowing.
As for the special properties of the island that only allows for vessels to escape at an exact heading of 325 degrees, otherwise the boat just runs in circles. If I were an Other I wouldn't want a man with Sayid's skills to be finding out what is on the other side it where no doubt more secrets lay.
As for the pace of the show it's on par with the first two seasons. So sit back and enjoy. Because in trying to comprehend all of Lost right now and waiting for another episode is akin to watching each brush stroke of Picasso's paint to dry first before another is made. There are so many tangent plot lines, I seriously doubt the writers will resolve all of them let alone most of the minor ones (like is Jack's dad also Claire's father; the clue's are there.) I suspect a lot of disappointed fans in that regard. But I like Picasso so I'm not worried.
On a side note I know someone suggested watching the pod casts to gleam more tidbits. But for me I kind of disagree with the writers using open discussion to lead us to where the story is going; it kind of spoils it. Because seriously, from a writers point of view, is it really a good story if you need to explain it before it's finished. They should stick to Wednesday night and the extra internet mystery to reveal their story.
Part of life isn't always being in the know but rather being in the mystery.
Sorry for the ramble.
oops-- should have been November 30, 2004.
As always a great post...I may ot agree totally but that is the beauty of this forum!
There were plenty of things I wanted to say and most has been stated already, so I won't go there. BUT...I did pick up on one thing not yet mentioned...
When Benry wants to convince Jack of the contact with the Real World (not the MTV show)he says a list of things and the one Jack just can not believe is RED SOX win...how did Benry know THAT would be what he needed to show him on the tube? For me I would have needed proof of Georg W's re-election!!!!
A point on the shows title, I think it was perfect! Jin, the others, Sayid, and audience combined all thought she was just that! She not only proved it wrong in her actions and lies but in flashback we get confirmation of a speculated affair. I for one was shocked! I could not believe all those thoughts about it possibly being Jae's baby. WRONG again! Who knows, and I doubt it will ever be proven anyway, but the thought is there! Jae killed himself no question. He grabbed that neckalce and thought how fragile he thought Sun was, and he KNEW Jin knew...even though he didn't, then he plummetted! GREAT WRITING!
I do have a few more thoughts about the DHARMA stuff and the Swan hatch...but I will continue this on my blog for fear of wasting your time here.
As always Brian, great post and I am looking forward to deeper meaning guess on next episode...I think we will see Hurley's return to the group...hence FURTHER INSTRUCTIONS...but what do I know?
till next time
Disagree with not being a archeological site.
Think again about the island, the 4 toes statue.. from the May 2006 official lost podcast:
"The foot statue represents the history and archeology of the island. Season three will explore what happened on the island before Dharma arrived in the late 70's and who was there."
This is straight from the producers of the show. Tell me that Ben wasn't there before dharma, and that this could not be an archeological dig? PHOEY!
Oh.. and watching it again, I see other people working in a similar matter in other roped off areas with similar tools. You can see them looking when Sawyer manages to take the gun. They don't appear to be others... who are THEY?
is there no concern that Michael and Walt, once returning to the 'real' world, will tell authorities where the Lostees are? Realistically, if a plane crashed....and you were on that plan.....and suddenly appear in the world.....authorities will want to know what happened etc. Plus, Michael, out of guilt, may want to help save the Lostees, even if it place his freedom (for kill having killed Libby and AnnaLucia) in jepordy. Thoughts?
Check out ABC.com, they have this thing where you can see how all the survivors are connected! There are some surprises!
To Anon:
No offence man & I honestly haven't studied archeology before so I admit I could be totally wrong. But aren't there usually holes being dug rather than the ground being cleared, smoothed out and compacted down; making the ground harder, firmer. Maybe as in for foundation support. And I was thinking, what requires a strong level surface? Buildings, runways, landing pads, more homes for their Hawiian style community, whatever right?. But there was definitly was a guy methodically pounding the ground with a huge weight and I don't know??!!? that just seems more conducive to construction than digging.
And I'm not trying to refute that Others could be, or are, into archeology. At the end of the day I still don't know what the Others are truely up to yet, so to me anything is possible. But all external factors to the show aside (ie, Podcasts), what we saw (to me at least) seemed like construction.
But really it's probably a moot point anyway. So if I am wrong, I'm wrong. :) - and I am just babbling today, sorry everyone.
And in my post I definitly concur with you that Ben is pre-Dharma.
Also, I too took notice of how when Sawyer's fake breakout attempt that none of the other worker's (assuming they are captives as well) seemed to even want to take advantage of Sawyer's distraction. Maybe it's another fake setup by the Others like they did to Michael at the Door hatch.
Love the discussion.
See you in another life brotha.
Hold on. Didn't we say Walt aged fast? And now HGI/Ben has aged fast? So are they aging faster, and living longer? No, I think that HGI lived there before Dharma, and probably helped/caused the failure in their plans and testing. His being on the island before Dharma also explains why he acts like he owns the island, and why he's the leader.
About Steven King, maybe Ben wouldn't like they are reading his book because he likes Steven King and he's not invited. I would guess he wouldn't like them reading it without him. Steven King's books are creepy, so maybe that's supposed to show that Ben has a dark side!
Juliet and Ben have some kind of falling out. Maybe they dated, or maybe they disagreed on how to run things. Juliet seems to be not that enthusiastic about what they're doing, but yet she still does her duties when needed (tasering Sawyer), which makes me think she's an Other on the brink of "losing her faith" in what the Others are doing. I think that makes sense given we had that theme with Locke recently, and also it gives an opportunity to get with Jack and also help the Survivors.
I seriously doubt Sun threw the bald guy out the window. That's too much of a conspiracy, and I don't think she's a cold-blooded killer, she just lies to protect herself. And she just shot Colleen because she was nervous/scared. In the flashback, Jae (the bald guy) looked at the pearl necklace, was depressed that he couldn't be with Sun, and threw himself out the window.
By the way, all kinds of symbolism with the Glass Ballerina title. Sun's innocence was shattered, the bald guy fell and was killed (like the glass ballerina statue fell and broke). I'm sure there's some more, but you know not all titles are as symbolic as previous ones... but it definitely has to do with the episode.
The comments about Sawyer and Kate are funny, and actually do make sense given they have isolated Jack from the other two. But what would they get from breeding Kate and Sawyer -- another baby? Other than that, I can't think of a reason, since Dharma projects were "a long time ago" as Juliet puts it. I seriously don't know what to think of their situation now, but I do seriously doubt that Sawyer knows they're listening to him... Sawyer is tough and fights back, but he's not Sayid!
Speaking of babies, you may be right about them being sterile or needing babies for some strange reason. I didn't see anyone holding babies anywhere, so can't they make their own? Anyway, when Sun gets a little more pregnant I think we'll get some more insight on this. But FYI, since it's been 69 days they've been on the island and about 2 seasons of shows, it seems like each season equals about 30 days which means they'll be on the island about 5 months, not leaving much time for Sun to have the baby. (unless they speed up the timing, of course)
The boat: they don't need a boat to get out. They (or at least HGI) could get out if they wanted to with the boat Michael left on. My boyfriend suggested that they're trying to get the Survivors out of there so they can go about their business. I don't know if I agree with that yet, but I'll tell you one thing, the Others are not acting like they want to get off the island. Also, if they had contact with the outside world, and know about the magnet, they would have been able to get off the island before.
Also, remember that there are 3 more years of this show, so the story of the Others can get really complicated. Most likely it's not what it seems, which right now seems to be that they are the "good guys." Who are the bad guys? I don't see them anywhere, and I don't see them bothering the Others... they seemed pretty comfortable with their book club and stuff. Remember, CFL is almost always right... and she says the Others are not good, so why would she be wrong now? I'll trust CFL over the Others any day!!
I think that the bald guy knew that Jin was Sun's husband and therefore felt possible really guilty about loving Sun, and being forgiven by her husband. Perhaps the bald guy realized that Sun would never leave Jin and killed himself.
A good guess is that momentous events that have occurred in the world and viewed on TV (ie; Red Sox victory....Bush winning president, etc) is recorded, to some extent, for the exact purpose of what Ben used the tape for w/Jack....to prove that they are somehow connected to the outside world.
On another matter, I wonder if there will be any significance to Sun having lit up the stove on the boat prior to being invaded by Others....ie; maybe the boat will suddenly catch on fire or something. WE'll see.
You know.. that's a good point about the quick aging.. It's possible that HGI/BEN was a result of accellerated aging...
I think that makes great sense... based on what we saw by Walt. I had only considered that they had to do away with the children as they age too fast... considering that 2 years real time = 68 days Lost time.
Remember, they never acknowledged Walt's aging on the show. We just saw it because he was 2 years older. Not much they could do about it. I agree with the whole sitting back and enjoying it theory. I am sick of trying to read into everything while the whole story is evolving. Maybe that is because I watched the first season on DVD, so I didn't have time make theories.
And thank God ABC shows it on the interent. I came home from softball last week and saw I ran out of space on the ol DVR, so I only got the first 32 minutes.
Hey, Brian, did you happen to see Lindelof's and Cuse's video podcast from a couple weeks back? They did confirm that there's more than one "faction" of others.
anybody watch the promos for next week's episode? Locke is back with a vengance! AND Desmond lost his underpants!!!
What a joy it is to wait patiently for LOST...NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Someone said something about Jack's dad also being Claire's dad??? Where did that come from? That's the first time i've ever heard anything of that. Maybe it's just me who isn't seeing the clues.
Sun's lover (ake "the bald guy") jumped from the balconey. Period. No plausible evidence to suggest otherwise.
Does anyone know what happened to all the children that they took? Jake, Kate and Sawyer should ask about them, right?
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