Wednesday, November 01, 2006

"The Cost of Living Reactions"

Brian's One Word Review: Holy _________!

Holy crap! Holy Eko! Holy Smokey! Holy religious symbolism! Holy Others-drama! This wasn't just the best episode of this season so far (even though the previews for next week's Fall Finale promise it will be the best episode of the year, it definitely has its work cut out for it now!), it's on the short list of the "All Time Great Episodes of Lost". Where to begin?
  1. Well, how about with the whole "Spoiler" thing I referenced in my preview post? Someone posted an interview from TV Guide that said a series regular was going to die in this episode. Once you realized it was an Eko-centric episode, he became the odds-on favorite to bite the big one. When I started thinking about it, it made no sense to me. They couldn't kill all the Tailers off, could they? In addition, Eko was just saved from the brink of death two weeks ago. If you were going to kill him off, why not let him die in the Hatch implosion or get eaten by a bad CGI Polar Bear? But after seeing this episode, I have no qualms with it whatsoever. His story came to a logical conclusion and served as an impetus to move the story forward. It wasn't some gimicky death for ratings or sheer "shock value". (But here's the sucky thing - if I didn't accidentally read that spoiler, I wouldn't have seen this coming in a million years. Kinda knowing it was coming took away some of the shock of the ending - this is why Spoilers are the devil!)
  2. The scene with Jack and Juliet? Absolutely fantastic. Talk about setting up a moral and ethical dilemma. Who to trust? I feel like Juliet is the obvious "good guy", and Ben is the obvious "bad guy", but wouldn't it be very Lost-like to have it be the other way around? Will Jack let his Hippocratic Oath get the best of him and save Ben? Or "slip" and end Ben's life? Excitement!
  3. Smokey. Boy, have we missed you. Not only did we get some of the best glimpses of Smokey ever, but we learned more of the nature of him - he's a Shape Shifter. Think about how the Lost producers told us we "saw the Smoke Monster last season but didn't realize it". It's likely that everything from Jack's dead dad to Kate's black horse to Locke's vision of Boone were all Smokey in disguise. But how is this all possible? For a show that's supposed to be "rooted in science", we now have a shape shifting cloud and a guy that can see the future. The sci-fi nerd alert is officially on.
  4. Eko. I loved Eko's "confesssion". It was flawed in its reasoning (he seemed to ruthlessly kill at least a few guys that he didn't need to), but it totally fit his character. For as much as we all loved Eko, he really wasn't a good guy. Even when he was acting as a priest, he never gave up his killer survival instinct. He didn't feel any guilt for what he did, he felt he did what he needed to do to survive, and he was okay with that. As he told the little boy, "Only God knows" how he'll be judged.
  5. Well, only God and the Smoke Monster (who may or may not be some sort of "Angel of Death"). Remember, Eko survived his first encounter with Smokey no problem. What changed between then and now? Whatever happened, Smokey is now pissed. Eko's dying words were: "You're next." Looks like the carefree days of exploring the Island and going off on random hikes are over! But why? Is this related to the Hatch Implosion?

I need some more time to digest. Full breakdown and analysis this weekend. Comment away!

85 comments:

Anonymous said...

Jack's conversation with Ben was great. I doubt he goes through with Juliette's plan, hippocratic oath and all...

Anyway, it looks like the former inhabitant of the Arrow station has been now seen, kind of strange that he waited for the camera to be on him to disable it.

Why did the "smoke" decide that Eko had to die now instead of before? He hasn't done anything that would make him less of a "good person" since last time, and if what he did prior to the island was worthy of punishment, he'd have been given it already. Is this another ham fisted departure because of a traffic violation? He was one of the better characters on the show...

Justin said...

Ok, so believe it or not I actually would lean towards trusting Ben over Juliet. Ben seemed very truthful in his talk with Jack over "proof of God." Also, Juliet seems to be playing Ben; she's warming up to Jack, showed him x-ray's behind Ben's back, etc. I think your original theory over a rebel group is confirmed, but what if that rebel group is trying to take over for the wrong reasons. What if under Ben's lead the "others" are really the "good guys." The peaceful unless provoked crowd. What if the rebels want a different end. I don't know where Alex would fit in here, but it's my gut reaction.

As for Eko dying, that came out of left field. But another person has died once they came to terms with their past and the smoke monster had something to do with it. But, according to Locke, his "vision" was something completely opposite of the smoke monster (a bright white light). Perhaps there are two "fate" monsters on the island dueling with each other. Smokey is bringing out the evil in everyone while whatever Locke saw the good? I don't know, but it might be time for bed.

Anonymous said...

I didn't consider the "death" thing a spoiler, as it was on the ABC Promo that someone would die.

Other said...

Did anyone else notice that there were no real questions answered in this episode, but they added about 30 new questions?

And my take on Eko is that he is nowhere near as cool as I thought he was. Whatever, man.

LOST is quickly becoming a proponent of "everyone is a selfish jerk" and "everyone gets screwed, especially the protagonists." I mean, why should I care what happens to these people if in the end they're all slimeballs or if they're all going to die violent deaths? Do the bad guys always have to win? Does someone always have to die?

I'm going to say it:

WORST. EPISODE. EVER.

Anonymous said...

I rather liked the implications of Ben's proof of God:

God brought down a plane killing dozens of people instantly and subjecting dozens of other survivors to misery and continued death to bring one surgeon to the island to maybe save Ben's life.

Conclusion: Ben is a megalomaniac and quite "bad"

Aky said...

Worst Episode? Sound like my wife!No answered questions? Well, we know Ben has the tumor, we know that there is a rebellion going on within the others, and the biggie! We know that the Smoke Monster is (likely)responsible for the visions!

I believe Smokey is "the Island", and is the bad guy. First response is, if he's pissed, the the hatch implosion is probably a good reason. Think about the effort that Smokey went through to get that button pushed? He could be taking is wrath out on their failures. Remember, if Smokey IS the halluciations(and it makes sense) then he wanted them to find the Pearl. It may never have been the plane, it was the Peal smokey wanted Locke to find(from his vision). This also brings up the visions of Charlie about saving the baby.. remember? That's still ou there. Does he have anything to do with Desmonds visions? How come he didn't see anything today?

OK, so we have more questions, but they're cool questions! The hatch with the eye patch guy? That's great, and Lockes response? "He'll be expecting us"...

Yes my friends... an awesome episode. LOST IS BACK BABY!

Anonymous said...

I loved it! And now I think Juliet is the big bad guy. I no longer trust her or any of her motives. But these are great comments so far -- here's to hours of discussion about Ben vs. Juliet.

I felt like Eko's story line was very well done. But did we ever learn just how it happened that both Yemi and Eko crash-landed on the same mysterious island? Will we ever have an answer to that?

AKy said...

A couple more thoughts off the top of my head:

The others may not have known about the plane crash or the passengers, but Smokey/The Island may have. Think about it, it was said in the first season that they should not have survived the crash. Could smokey have saved them? Did it know anything about who was on the plane? Ben said that his evidence for God was a spinal surgeon falling out of the sky two days after he found out his had a terminal spine tumor.
Could Smokey have been his "God"

One more theory before I go to bed. Ben accused Julia of showing him the X-Rays, there was no logical reason why they should have been out and on display. She may not have shown them, but she left them out where he couldn't miss them, which could also be the reason she pushed for Jack to do the surgery. Julia WANTED to let the cat out of the bag. He's one smart cookie... and NO, I do NOT think that they've had any romantic relationship.

PBJ said...

what really struck me as the difference between Eko's first and second encounters with Smokey is that this time he was scared, scared as hell! The first time he stared Smokey down like a badass and Smokey went away. This go-round, each time he heard Smokey he looked around like the twitchy squirrels we have around campus. When confronted at last, he turns and runs and starts reciting Psalm 23 - "The Lord is my Shepherd..." That was by far the biggest difference to me: Eko no longer has nothing to believe in because Smokey shattered him while pretending to be his brother.

About the whole Jack thing: I would be very suspicious of Juliet. It seems to be so much of a trap to fall into. I don't want to trust Ben either, but this Juliet business is too fishy. Also, it hearkens back to the first scene of the season when whoever was bitching at Juliet about the book saying that Ben wouldn't approve, and she replies "and here I thought there was still some freedom on the island" or something like that.
Pretty cool episode IMO, but I was almost hoping for more.
BTW Smokey being a shape-shifter could explain the hut setting on fire: the visions have an actual physical presence that can do things. Still doesn't explain why usually only one person sees things (Jack's father, Kate's horse IIRC, Walt)

and yeah, what happened to Vincent?

Other said...

While it was already pretty obvious last week that Jack was meant to think that Ben has a tumor, we still don't "know" 100% that Ben has the tumor; there could still be some kind of ruse going on. For instance, it could all be a ploy to draw out Juliet's true intentions.

The "rebellion" could also be a ruse devised by Juliet. With these "Others" there is no truth, only lies that are (eventually) proved false by fact.

And the whole thing with "Yemi" being Smokey, this was heavily hinted at by Damon and Carlton, so no revelation there.

Very disappointing episode.

Anonymous said...

Jack won't intentionally kill him, but with his batting average, Jack fails more often than not.
But I think he'll survive... for now.

I'll wager right now that Ben will die before the season is over, and probably by the hand of one of his own.

As much as I like Julia, I have to give Ben credit, he may lie, but he doesn't appear to be a Killer(just pain!). We now see that Julia IS a killer, and she may be more deceitful. Still, I can't help but pull for her to be the good one.

Anonymous said...

Kate AND Jack saw the horse.
Sayid AND Shannon saw Walt.
It's not just certain people.
Dave being the exception, but that could have been Hurley and not Smokey.

Becca said...

I think Ben is too interesting and dynamic of a character (for better or worse) to kill off halfway into the season, especially after a death this episode. I think he will make it through the next episode (the trailer implied his surgery might take place). Whether he makes it to the end of the season is a coin toss, IMO.

Here's to Ben being the most intriguing bad guy. Also, how cool would it be to have a Ben flashback in his death episode? (Assuming it happens, and noticing that most main characters die during an episode with their flashbacks)

Becca said...

My presumtion Ben lives pretty much tells me that Jack won't go through with killing him. Either his doctor ethicis won't allow it, or he catches wind of a treachery from Julia. Or maybe he found hard bargining with Ben could get what he wants?

I can't wait to see how it all unfolds.

Anonymous said...

So going along with the idea that the smoke is also the hallucinations that survivors are seeing... it appears to Locke as Boone to provide the proper motivation to save Eko from the Polar Bears, only so it handle killing Eko itself?

If they were going to write him out of the show, they should have just had him die in the hatch implosion so the whole event would have had more consequence to it. This seemed like a really lame send off for a great character.

As much as I was annoyed at the focus of the new season being on Jack playing mental candy land with the others rather than focusing on the repercussions of the timer hitting zero, I have to say what is going on with the "alcatraz" is more entertaining than what used to be the main point of the show.

And the way they are introducing these other beach inhabitants... too awkward. Stuff like Ana Lucia appearing was thought out ahead of time (M. Rodriguez appeared in the season 1 finale) and we knew why they had never been seen up to that point (they were on the other side of the island). Paulo and Nikki just sort of show up out of nowhere, tagging along with the core group of characters.

And when the hell is Jack going to bother to ask why a pregnant woman was kidnapped and what reasons they had to get Walt and then let him go?

This show is starting to veer into oncoming traffic, and the three months between episode 6 and 7 won't help much. I can't wait for 24 to start in January.

WDoG Winston P said...

Great Episode IMO!

I definitely think that something is going on with Juliet. I don't know about her. I can see her playing Jack and that Ben is the good one. On the other hand though I can see Juliet being the good one. Ben does seem pretty intelligent.

Heres my biggest problem with the episode.
NIKKI AND PAULO!!!!
WTF!
This is really bugging me. I would be really upset if I didn't keep up with LOST online. They still have not introduced them.

Nikki in the Pearl!!!
"Theres a bunch of TV's here, try getting the feed from one of them"
Locke the badass and Sayid the electronics guru didn't think of that?!! Some random (to the watchers of the show) girl thinks of this. This is hard to believe.

Great so see smokey again!

Good episode, Can't WAIT FOR THE NEXT ONE!

Pat said...

Seriously, people are too harsh. I thought it was a great episode. Hey people, they aren't going to wrap up every question in a few hours. If you want that, watch a movie or read a book. Just sit back and enjoy the ride.

I hate spoilers. And I don't care if ABC said someone was gonna die. It still takes away from it. It has been said before, there are pleanty of websites out there for spoilers. Go nuts on those. I think they will be a big problem for the next half of the season. They will be filming more in advance, more time for shit to leak out.

I really really like the introduction of Number Two. A Dharma left over?

What did the alter boy say to Eko in the woods? Gophers? Go Fist? Golf First? Go First? Maybe that was it. If it was "Go First," there is your boatload of religious symbology. Another huge one, his brother's grave. Rolling away the stone, just like the Big Man's grave. Very interesting.

Next week looks fan-tastic. Can't wait. Look forward to your disection.

Anonymous said...

"What did the alter boy say to Eko in the woods? Gophers? Go Fist? Golf First? Go First? "

He said "Confess".

Qix said...

Just a quick question: If Rose was cured of cancer by the island (or whatever), then why does Ben have cancer? Is there something there?

Anonymous said...

a few points and observations;

First, let us all not forget Sawyers' words to Kate when he sized up Juliette...something like "...she'd kill you in a second". Like most things on Lost, this means something for Sawyer to have sized up this sweet women in that way. And, Sawyer's intuition and instinct can probably generally be trusted.

Second, Eko's backstory was riveting. Him killing the badass guys was powerful. And, the actor that played Eko's performance was exceptional....as it has been in past episodes - shame we lost this character. His final words to Locke was fantastic...kudos to the writters.

Lastly, speaking of great performances, the actors that play Juliette and Ben are excellent too.

Anonymous said...

It is curious how and why Jack isn't asking the most key questions of Ben and Juliette....who are you? why are we here? what ever happened with the other survivors from 815? why did you abduct them? why did you need Walt? yada, yada. Also, where are the executive producers going with this whole "fate" concept for a story line with back-stories intersecting each other?....with Jack "falling from the sky" to save Ben?....with Eko's brothers' plane crashing on the island?.....etc? I hope, once revealed, we are not disapointed as heck.

Anonymous said...

I was convinced that Nikki and Paulo was going to die in this ep. They seem like narrative cannon fodder waiting to happen. Next time then I guess...

I'm curious if Smokey killed Eko because of the hatch explosion or because he gave "wrong answers" to Yemi/Smokey. Alternatively the one eyed man controls Smokey and he turned aggressive when the survivors tuned in his channel.

Maybe the fact that Eko mistook Smokey for Yemi was the trigger. (Maybe Smokey has low self esteem and needs to get a lot of attention to feel good)

I also believe that there's more than one Smokey. How else explain Ekos vision of the boy doing the hush gesture to him? So maybe there's a good and a bad Smokey.

Anonymous said...

I agree, it was a big reveal, but blame ABC(who did it for ratings), not the people discussing it here. ABC was showing a promo that flashes all the main characters and says "this week, one of these characters will DIE" You don't have to like it, but that alone takes the spoiler out of it and makes it fair game for discussion. It's ABC's release.

Anonymous said...

I hope Julia is not the "bad" one. She's the first female character on the show I actually like. I'd take Juliet over Kate anyday. (Not that Kate isn't attractive, I just don't like her character, which is probably why I don't care for the whole love triangle angle of the show."

I can see the potenial for Julia being bad, but if they give her a flashback, before any 'others', she's probably good.

Assuming the 5 seasons they want, they're almost to the midpoint, they have to start giving answers and slow down on presenting questions. Right?

Anonymous said...

They didn't bring the actor who plays Paulo in from Brazil for just two episodes, but he and Nikki have that short term character look of Artz and Ethan about them.

It's funny, I thought that certain characters, Goodwin for example, fit in smoothly, while Ethan and Artz always seemed forced to me. Writing or acting, I don't know, but Nikki and Paulo have this same feel.

rob said...

I really think that Juliet can be trusted, not Ben. I think that she is the leader of the others who want out, or off, or whatever...a break from Ben's leadership. But what did Ben's remark about Juliet looking like Sarah have anything to do with anything?

I have more thoughts on my blog, but wanted to ask that question here. I don't get that part.

Anonymous said...

This is getting annoying. Why introduce two new characters in such a ham-fisted way (they were always here, just in the background), and then kill Eko?

Why introduce patch-man when you haven't answered any of the other older questions? Yeah, we know Ben has the tumor, but that was introduced in the previous episode. No long-term speculation there. Here are a few examples of dropped threads:

Ana Lucia said the others took a total of 13 of the tailies over the first and second night, including all the kids and the stewardess (if she really was taken. She could have quietly slipped off just before Shannon was shot.) Those 13 people have been held somewhere for about a month now in island time. Where? And we also know that the others (Ben's others) are the ones that took them, because of Goodwin's comments to Ana Lucia just before he died: "The kids are fine...".

I understand introducing new mysteries to keep people interested, or to draw in new viewers, but at least reward longtime viewers by answering something. Like Crazy French Lady? Where is she? Is she telling the truth that she's never seen the others in her 16 years on the island? Did she really capture Ben, or did they plot it together? If the others don't know what the bright light meant when the hatch imploded, why did Ben lie and convince Locke the button didn't do anything? Is he just a compulsive liar? We know now (if it's true) that Ben set up his capture to work the fake trade to capture Jack so he'd operate on him.

I agree we'll never know how the Nigerian plane got to the island. No point in exploring that now that the only person with a connection to it is dead.

No wonder Locke was giggling to himself when he said "Guess he'll be expecting us now." It's ridiculous. Just pile on another mystery.

summer said...

This multi-layered plot is out of control. Is is getting so frustrating. A few things...

The one-eyed patch guy was freaky. Perhaps he kept his feed to the pearl hatch on because he had a means by which to watch THEM too.

I am leaning toward Juliet as the bad guy and Ben as the good guy. It would be very Lost-esque for Jack to believe Juliet, let Ben die on the operating table, only to find out he made a horrible mistake and that Ben was actually the good guy! Juliet just seems so cold and calculating, although now that I think about it...so does Ben!

I will miss Eko, but the viewers needed some sort of bone thrown to them after this disappointing season. To me he was by far the most symbolic character of all of them.

Lastly, I don't think I can ever go a week without Kate and Sawywer. I'm hooked on their storyline.

Ethan said...

I think Brian nailed it with his stab at the nature of the smoke monster. (I still want to know how a towering column of smoke that can lift a man into the air has a "scientific" explanation.) Thinking back through the series, I think I see what they're getting at with Smokey.

I suspect that the Swan hatch was cramping Smokey's style. IF the visions of Walt were really Smokey, a) why talk backwards, and b) why say "don't push the button, button bad?" Clearly we know now that the button was "good". Or at least served an actual purpose, and not a psych experiment. I wonder if the hatch implosion freed up Smokey to be smokier than ever.

Also: Since this is getting a lot of play in this thread, I suspect that the polar bear that Locke saved Eko from was really Smokey. IF Smokey was the Boone vision, I suspect he/it wanted to confirm that Locke was indeed going to "clean up his mess" and not try to cop out. I guess we all need to bone up on our "Cerberus" (sp?) mythology re: Smokey. But it felt good to get some answers, such as they were.

Anonymous said...

I think from now on, HGI/Ben should be known as BENRY on this blog.

-Lauren

Anonymous said...

Ok here is my opinion. this is so coming out of left field and may have no bearing on anything - but i cannot get it out of mind that
this whole thing -including the game--is some kind of dream state or collective conscious - or after-life consciousness where using the symbols of their previous incarnation they work out the unresolved issues from thelife they just left.
THUS
Everytime someone works out the major unresolved issue of their life they are going to die so they can move on and start something else.
The other island that Ben showed Sawyer is Life or Physical Incarnation
entering the numbers represented the old habitual mind sets involved in living where you take another person's word for something - like the existence of God.
The whole thing is just as complicated as real life because to them it is real, but some.like Ben seem to have figured out what is going on even though they have not resolved their issues.
This works too, because they are literally in the state of DHARMA. The whole not-for-profit thing is a symbol for for the the law dharma. The island is 'the way it is' they can't get back to their old lives. They are creating situations based off their innermost beliefs about "the way it is".
Smokey seems to be fear/ guilt that reaches out and grabs you or sometimes you can stare it down, depending on the state of your conscience, or your own insecurity at that moment. It can take on the appearance of whatever you are grappling with internally... anyway those are my mad ramblings.

psuheelfan said...

"To Kill a Mockingbird" is about an innocent man who is killed - the producers are clearly giving us a hint that perhaps Juliet is not as sweet and innocent as she seems!

epu said...

It was...Beautiful

I've only scanned over the comments on this page but I'm surprised that I haven't came across the conversation between Eko and Locke;

Locke: I saw it ONCE too, a bright light and it was beautiful..
Eko: That is not what I saw...

Erm what? Locke is obviously referring to 'Walkabout' when he encountered the 'thing', during that scene it made the typical ‘Smokey' noises, but it wasn't Smokey? But a bright light?

Are there two 'monsters' one white, one black [did Locke hit the nail on the head with his creepy backgammon talk to Walt way back in season 1?]

To Be Or Not To Be

I also don't trust Ben and/or Juliet. The way Ben 'gave' Jack his whole plan was very 'easy'. I think he wants to make Jack think his 'tests' are over, and so with that in mind, I think Juliet is testing Jack...

Perhaps they just want to know if Jack is a killer or not. Both Sawyer and Kate have killed in COLD BLOOD, where as Jack seems to 'do the right thing'. If he passes this test I can imagine them using Jack 'against' Smokey, Smokey seems to judge people and then condemn them. If Jack is 'clean' perhaps he can 'walk past Cerberus' as the tale goes and get into the place it’s actually protecting....?

Nikki and Paulo

Ummmm, for me [Nikki in particular] they have been put in the show, almost like fans. I've been part of my fair share of lost forums, and most if not all of them always ask "Why don't our losties ask questions" - Nikki in this episode, did that - which is good, but felt forced...

But she's hot so I'll give her the benifit of the doubt [I hope they aren't thinking of killing Kate off though!!]

Thats all, peace

EPU

PS - best episode of the season, thus far! I understand peoples frustration at not getting answers, but in my experience the answers will be a let down so just enjoy the mystery and twist and turns, because once it's over...that's it!

Anonymous said...

I don't think Juliet looks or even resembled Sarah.

Tom T said...

I useed to watch X-Files, I felt like I never got answers. It seemed that the mythology would shift and the characters would somehow forget past events in the mythology. No, Lost has already given answers, and it looks as thought they've knowed about this stuff a long way out(glass eye, Eko and the church).
These guys have written the mythology first, which is what you need to have final closure.
There is something with the music I tell you... something with the ages. Something isn't right, and the others are NOT related to Smokey, and Walt and his comments about the button are NOT the same as Smokey/Visions about the button.
I think Walt could see through it for what it was. Walt said the hatch was BAD. However, Walt didn't seem to like the Others either.

That's all for now.

Hermano said...

I've only scanned the comments, so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but we don't technically know exactly what Eko's last words meant.

He said "You're next," obviously, to Locke. Locke to that to mean, "We're next," second person plural, as in the rest of the survivors, or the rest of group present. How does he know he didn't mean "You, John Locke, are next"? It seems to make a lot more sense to have Smokey come after Locke than after the survivors as a whole, considering that Smokey's been on a bit of a hiatus (at least violence wise) for quite some time now. Locke's death would be amazing -- though they'd better tell us the rest of his story before they kill him.

Anonymous said...

I haven't time to read EVERY comment here, and I still need to REwatch the episode but I wanted to comment before I head off to packing up the house.

1) I found it interesting, Juliet NEVER tells him to KILL ben. She suggests at it vaguely yes. BUT NEVER OUT RIGHT. We all, Jack too, just assume that is what she is getting at. Seems very politically safe.

2) Smokey is the visions...have I heard this before? FINALLY, I was right about ONE thing!

3) Eko's death was expected, not by a TV Guide interview but by the previews saying they have survived for 71 days and one will not survive anymore. Who else would it be, when it was an Eko centric episode AND he was so badly injured. What would have spoiled it for me is if someone said, Smokey is the killer. But that is just my opinion...take it or leave it.

I will post more on my blog later.

Ethan said...

OK: "Lost" nerd that I am, I popped in "White Rabbit" as it is one of the first "vision" episodes to my recollection. Jack discovers the caves that most of the survivors migrate to based on the vision, but also discovers that his father's coffin is empty. Eko discovered that his brother's body was missing from the plane. Maybe Smokey needs people to believe that these visions are the real deal? It wouldn't have the same punch for Eko if he had his brother's body to lean on.

I suspect that "mythology" is the word of the hour, folks. Athena (and other Greek gods) routinely mingled with humanity in the guise of either strangers or someone known to the visit-ee. So in White Rabbit, when Locke tells Jack to "finish what he started" by following the vision, I bet that was really Smokey having a close enounter. Just a hunch.

OH - and did I not say that the whole "rescue Eko from the polar bear" thing would pay off sooner or later? Looks like sooner, eh wot!

Back to roll some more tape...

Brian Leonard said...

Hermano said almost what I've ben wondering most about. What *exactly* did Eko say to Locke? If he indeed said "You're next", wouldn't Locke think it applied specifically to him? Could Eko have said something like "You're *all* next"?

Anyway, it was certainly a gripping episode, although I share others' concerns about things ultimately making sense...not to mention the whole Nikki/Paulo thing. The moment in the Pearl was probably the worst moment ever in the whole series.


Brian L.

Brian Leonard said...

Yikes--I typed "ben" instead of "been". Have The Others gotten to me?????

B.L.

Susa said...

Regarding Smokey´s ability to grab people (or trees), lift them up and throw them down: I can´t help but thinking of the book "Prey" by Micheal Crichton. The producers said that the smoke monster does not consist of nanobots, but it does exactly all the things, including shapeshifting, like the buzzing black clouds in the book! Now THAT would be a scientific explanation - if they need to have one. And I can´t think of anything else that would make sense...any ideas out there?
BTW interesting episode, although the two "newbies" are not very likeable at the moment!

Anonymous said...

Another comment to think about....why did Locke say to Eko "what are you so afraid of?"

Also, when Eko was about to die, what exactly did he say to Locke? He didn't say "we're next" as Locke answered to Sayid. Did he say "You are all next"? I'd be curious.

Anonymous said...

Will we ever now know Eko's entire backstory? Why was he on flight #815 going to LA?

Aky said...

Eko was sent to Australia to check out a possible miracle concerning a girl who died and came back to life. She told him at the airport that his brother Yemi said "hi". This was the episode last season when he took over entering the numbers in the hatch.

Eko was on the plane back.

Anonymous said...

I think "smokey" is something mechanical. The entire time it was attacking Eko you could hear a chain as if it was on a pully. I also think that the only reason it killed Eko is because he refused to confess and therefore proved he was evil versus good. I agree it takes the form of people and things such as Jack's dad and Eko's brother.

As far as Ben and Juliet - they are a team and putting Jack to the ultimate test.

Anonymous said...

In regards to why Ben would want Locke to quit pushing the buttons:

he said so himself: "I came to get you." What better way to bring someone to your side than to make them feel like what they are currently doing is pointless and to make them feel like your side has what he is looking for?


In regards to why smokey took Eko out now and not before:

In the first confrontation, in the smoke, you could see glimpses of Eko's life and his deicions, as well as the ramifications of said decisions. Once populated with a purpose by the visions (which were to push the button and help John with his faith), he also served Smokey's wants. The need to push the button is done and, as a result, got John back on the path... and now it is time for Eko to confess his sins and stand in judgement. Based on his reaction (which was NOT the words of a pious man), he was killed.

Smokey seems to have reason for keeping John alive. He also seems to enjoy toying with the survivors a bit. I mean, come on, we all just saw what Smokey can do. You think, in dragging John into a pit, Smokey couldn't beat Jack in a Locke tug of war? The reason for Smokey's actions will all be answered when we find out what "Boone" meant with the comment "You need to bring the family back together."

hope said...

Locke seems to be taking over Eko's role in Lost. Repeating what Eko said to him (Locke) something to the effect of not blaming what is fate on coincidence. Also in the promo he is shown holding up Eko's cross

Anonymous said...

eko HAS felt remorse before. Remember when he killed a few of the Others the night of the plane crash? He did 40 days of silence as penance. I just don't understand the change in him. I think someone was on the right track when they said that his purpose in life was no gone with the hatch - but I didn't really buy into Eko caring that much about such a thing.

VERY EXCITED about this show.

EPU said...

Judgements

Smokey kind of reminds me of 'the others' aka Ben and Co.

Smokey/The Others seem to have a 'we are the almighty judges of all yee small minded people' - superiority complex - on the island. For example;

The others decide who is good and who is bad, taking the good, leaving, [and on occasions] snapping the necks of the bad..

The Others

The Others gather Intel [presumably] via outside sources, news reports, files, off island agents?! And then seems to place each 'subject' into a series of tests [see Jack, Kate, Sawyer]

Smokey

Smokey, gathers Intel [See 23rd Psalm] and then makes judgement [See 'The Cost Of Living], but not only that - Smokey gives the one being judged the chance to repent, and be forgiven....

What/whoever created Smokey, wasn't only some technical/scientific genius - but was obviously religious in some way or at least, believed in repenting for ones sins...

Though, that theory is kind of obliterated when you introduce the pilot as Smokey didn't seem to give him a chance - presuming, of course, that the pilot wasn't an 'other' and that person in the tree was someone else [he was kind of mangled in the face area] ;)

- epu

Epu said...

Just a quick 2nd [double] post by me :P

Leading on from my previous post, were the others taking 'the good people' because those were the ones Smokey wanted to kill? We know that the others came for Eko [the first?] night!

That would explain why Ana Lu and Co never actually came across 'Smokey' on their treks through the jungle!!

It also explains why they took Jack and Kate [though, not so much Sawyer] as they've both had confrontations [i.e. running away from] Smokey...

Ok, NOW I'm done ;)

- EPU

Anonymous said...

Eko was sent to Australia to check out a possible miracle concerning a girl who died and came back to life. She told him at the airport that his brother Yemi said "hi". This was the episode last season when he took over entering the numbers in the hatch.

Eko was on the plane back

BUT WHY WAS HE GOING TO LA....FLIGHT #815's DESTINATION?

Anonymous said...

It will be impossible for us to figure out what Smokey really is but there is no chance it is "mechanical" as previously suggested here. It is some spiritual manifestation, of sorts, and part of the mythology of the Island...why it is there, and why does it attack who it attacks I'd bet will remain a mystery by the writters for some time yet or maybe never explained "factually".

susa said...

That is an interesting point - Smokey as a kind of spiritual manifestation...reminds me of the movie "Forbidden Planet" where the anger and negative emotions of the people who once lived there had transformed into a gigantic "energy monster"...it could also move and destroy things, if I remember it correctly. I like that idea! I really hope we will get an explanation as good as that...

Anonymous said...

Again, I would imagine that the writters will never allow the viewers of LOST discover "factually" what the Smokey monster is. What possible explanation can there be that would be consistent with the intelligent writting standards already set forth on LOST? I bet, at the end of the day, we may learn no more than what it is believed that Smokey is.....I think the rationale for Smokey will be presented as a mystery to anyone and everyone and is just part of the Island's mythology....Nobody, including DHARMA researchers, know for sure or have much of an clue what this is (IMO). One thing somewhat for sure....it does really exist and not just in the minds of victims....we have evidence to know this much.

Laurie said...

I don't think that "you're next" neccesarily means death. I think it means finding a sort of salvation, like Eko finally did by confessing.

Anonymous said...

good point Laurie - it may not imply death but it did seem implied that it may. Anyhow, the writters were brilliant to have Eko's closing words to be a 'warning' of sorts. This really adds an element of further and heightened anticipation and continued deep mystery to the viewing experience. Gotta love this show!

Senor Feesh said...

"But what did Ben's remark about Juliet looking like Sarah have anything to do with anything?"

Jack was in love with Sarah, Juliet is symbolic of her - a way to make him more amenable to the Others' plans (assuming Ben is telling the truth that is).

"his whole thing -including the game--is some kind of dream state or collective conscious - or after-life consciousness"

I'm sure this has already been fundamentally debunked by the producers - scientific explanation, remember?

"Why introduce patch-man when you haven't answered any of the other older questions?"

Why not? Seems to me they like to pick up old storylines when most non-obsessives (heh, not us then) will have forgotten about them - such as the children, as you rightly mention. I may be misguided, but I still have faith in the mythos of Lost as a whole.

And we all know the introduction of Paulo and Nikke was crap - can we please talk about more important things?

Anonymous said...

If Ben knew that Jack was a surgeon (two days after he learned he had spinal tumor) that "fell from the sky"....what is the backstory as to why and how Ben (Henry Gail) was captured? Was this some accident to gain intelligence? If so, did Ben put an arrow thru his shoulder himself? Doubtful. Will be interesting to learn the real circumstances as to how and why Ben was captured...given how smart Ben is, hard to imagine it was a complete accident.

epu said...

That's a very good point 'dude above me'...

I'm still not sure about Bens reason for 'getting caught'. Was he actually going straight to Jack?

It's funny, I can imagine the scene with Jack, Locke and Ben..

Locke: "I've come, the island sent me"
Ben: "But we didn't want you, we wanted Jack!"
Locke: "Why?! Why did you do this to me, I killed them, because the island asked me to!!!!"

*turns green and goes postal*

I also love how the writers have 'personified' the different leader styles between Jack and Locke. Locke seems a lot more laid back "it's a free island, the more the merrier" - may seem nicer on Lockes part, but Jacks "No, you aren't comming, we're keeping it small" - although rather 'controling' - makes more sense in my opinion. No point in risking all those people

By the way, I wonder if Eko's words were "You are ALL next" OR "You're next" - as in 'Locke is next'...

It's a shame Eko has gone :( but I can imagine seeing him in the future when 'smokey' comes for J.Locke

PS Next weeks episode looks fantastically-brilliant

Cant wait

Anonymous said...

Hey Epu....yeah, Eko's exact final words to Locke has been questioned on a thread above. It seems implied that the words may have been something like "you're all next" and Locke simply said, when asked by Sayid, "we're next". Also, as stated above in a previous post, these words do not necessarily imply death but maybe the idea that they too will have to face their demons and Smokey.

bstevens said...

While we're onto discussing unanswered questions, I couldn't help but wonder what ever happened to "Miss Clue" from Season 2, "3 minutes"?

She seemed so spooky in that episode and like an important part of the Others. She seemed like someone in charge, yet we haven't seen or heard of her since...

If Juliett wanted Ben to die, why did Miss Clue send Michael out to retrieve him? Why didn't the rebel Others just let him continue to be tortured?

Why did they need him back?

SmokeMonster said...

about vincent, i read on another board that on the dvd version of the finale shows vincent getting into the boat with michael and walt?

Anonymous said...

Has anyone seen the late week Canadian trailer? Kate pleads with Jack to do the surgery on Ben or the Others will kill Sawyer.

Anonymous said...

*Info/spoiler from Trailer for next week's show*

Does anyone think that we might be due for an "alex-centric" flashback very soon? She is featured in the trailer for next week and somebody commented earlier that there is a lot of ground to cover in CFL's (can't remember her name!) storyline.

*Info/spoiler from Trailer for next week's show*

I was fascinated by ben's comments regarding fate...

Provided he was telling the truth that they did not bring jack to island intentionally, it hints (again) that the others have a vast and sophisticated information retrieval infrastructure. Slightly at odds with the retro-esque technology the others are using.

Within 71 days they seem to have determined very intimate details of jack's life. Pretty impressive.

I enjoyed the episode immensely (but I'm easy to please). We'd all been waiting for the return of smokey and some indication of what it was capable of right?

Although I find the eko storyline powerful and fascinating, this week it felt a little heavy handed and hammy. It was almost a relief when he died in that respect.

Locke is also becoming a bit of an annoying parody of himself. Overcompensating for the "easily coercible" part of last weeks flashback maybe? (although he always annoyed me a little anyway).

Incidentally I don't necessarily think the writer are taking a hard line by killing off driving offenders, but maybe that the cast that get their severance pay are maybe 'celebrating' a little too hard?

I'm looking forwards to when they cover the sun/jin/sayid journey back to the beach camp. That was a nice big plot hole that will hopefully reveal something in the future.

-SJ

Anonymous said...

What interest could there be in the story of Sun, Jin and Sayid's trip back to the beach camp? I would doubt that story may ever get told.

Senor Feesh said...

"2 days after... tumour... spinal surgeon... God..." BULLS&*T.

If he wanted Jack, why not get him straight away? Why take the kids/abduct Claire first?

As for the Ben/Juliet debate... is it possible this is some scheme they cooked up together? Unlikely (see: "Why did you show him my X-rays?" - don't see that being for Jack's benefit somehow) but worth considering.

Not much else to say right now - too sleepy.

Jack E. said...

Hello! First time posting this season, didn't really see much to add until now. After reading these comments I'm surprised no one pointed out that not only are Nikki and Paulo "Others" but probably the pair that had previously manned the Pearl hatch, because they sure knew their way around.....

Anonymous said...

Nikki and Paulo turning out to be "Others", as suggested in post above, would be too obvious and heavy handed by writters IMO.

Jeffo said...

Does anyone else think that patchman looks like Mittelwerk?

Why would Julia want Jack to kill Ben, when Ben is going to die anyway? I think the whole thing is a bogus Julia and Ben ploy to break Jack.

Anonymous said...

Daniel Dae Kim has just opened a myspace page (www.myspace.com/danieldaekim) and is encouraging fans of the show to add him as a friend and ask questions, post theories, etc. He told the folks on The Fuselage. Just thought I'd put it out there for you all.

Love this blog .. I never miss it!

theSock said...

I don't know if it was mentioned before...

But why is it that the island cured Rose's cancer, gave Locke the walks, and (presumably) allowed Jin's swimmers to run free and allowed Ben to have a back tumor? Isn't this contrary to every little shard of info we have on the island this far?

Answers?

A.J said...

That if the Xrays are actually real :P

Anonymous said...

....are the xrays real? If so, this is a bit implausible that Ben could and would pull this off so far as deceiving / testing Juliette. Again, would be heavy handed writting if they went in this direction.

EPU said...

I like the idea that this is perhaps a ploy to make the 'rebel' others show themselves. If Ben knows their are those who want to over throw him, but has no idea who they are, he could be trying to set them up - a la Juliet - so that they make themselves 'visible'...

However I think this would be too many twist, I'm more inclined to think that this is a trick to try and test Jack. That's not to say Ben doesn't have a tumour, but that 'the island[s?]' are keeping him safe for now...

Jack seeing the x-rays may have not been planned, but once he had the others have decided to use this to their advantage...

it wouldn't be the first time that Ben has turned something negative into something positive (see; Ben getting caught by CFL..

Can't wait until tomorrow! (By the way, I presume this is only an hour long episode? And not a double header?)

- EPU

Brian said...

Sadly yes, tomorrow night is a single hour, not a two hour extravaganza.

Full post up tonight!

Aky said...

It's Miss Klugh, not Clue...

Vincent was shown getting on the boat in one of the DVD extras. They did NOT show this in the show. However, since I haven't seen him this season, I assume that this scene was either cut. However, we haven't seen much back at the camp.

Anonymous said...

Doesn't it seem pretty far fetched that Ben and Juliette would consider it a viable option to operate on Bens spine when the others aren't even in posession of a crash cart? I'm no surgeon, but I'd be hard pressed to believe that spinal surgery/tumour removal is something simply done with a sharpy...

20something said...

hey,

If Benry and Juliette are in conflict, why would Benry let her have such close contact with Jack? If Bery is SO smart hasn't he figured out that Juliette is a rebel and shouldn't be left with Jack. nah they're in cahoots.

Senor Feesh said...

Ok peoples, I'm making a call on Danielle's allegiance right now.

She's with the Others.

NO WAY did she just happen to catch Ben as he made his way around the island. When do these gys ever go anywhere by themselves? More to the point, why would Ben, their apparent LEADER go by himself?

Now you nay-sayers may say that I can't be right being as she shot him, but I quote "If I wanted to kill him, I would have done."

This leads me neatly onto my next point - BEN IS HARDCORE. They had to have that planned - him running and her shooting. Also, with her telling Sayid "He's one of them" they had to know he was going to take a beating. His plan was to gain their trust by relying on poor Henry's balloon. To what end? I don't know. But I can't imagine he would just 'happen' to be caught in a net while out for a stroll alone. No sir, that does not wash with me.

A.J said...

Plus Ben himseld said they are better at conning people than Sawyer himself :P

Anonymous said...

the entire issue that Senor Feesh makes is a good question....what is the backstory as to how and why Ben got caught by our Lostees last season? Either it was somehow conspired or a mistake. Hard to think Ben would voluntarily take an arrow thru the shoulder if this was contrived just to make this more plausible. I wonder when this will be revealed???

bstevens said...

Hey,

I don't know how to spell "klugh" I just spelled it like it sounds, does that make me any less of a fan?

You didn't answer my question...l

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry I don't have time to read all the other posts so forgive me if I'm rehashing.

Why did Smokey kill Eko now and not before? The first time, smokey seemed to be trying to get a read on Eko -- maybe smokey saw the potential good in Eko and let him live... Smokey obviously gave Eko the chance to confess and repent from all of his evil doing... He didn't take that chance and ergo, Smokey Smash!

I think we'll see a parallel opportunity for Locke: "You're next."

hope said...

Where is everything? No new posts, etc?

webuffy said...

epu writes:
"Perhaps they just want to know if Jack is a killer or not. Both Sawyer and Kate have killed in COLD BLOOD, where as Jack seems to 'do the right thing'. If he passes this test I can imagine them using Jack 'against' Smokey, Smokey seems to judge people and then condemn them. If Jack is 'clean' perhaps he can 'walk past Cerberus' as the tale goes and get into the place it’s actually protecting....?"

This is a great idea. It would make Jack kind of like "the one". It fits in with my ranting about the island operating on its own to fulfill the earth's imbalance which is leading us to destruction. (Please, if you haven't read "The Numbers Explained" by Brian, do that asap - sorry to keep repeating myself but that is too significant to be missed.)

Can't see Jack killing Ben during surgery - that would be against his nature. Juliet should know that - Jack's file is a foot thick. Never trusted her - she gives me the creeps!

We know that the xrays are Ben's. What we do not know is if they are old. Maybe his tumor was healed by the island already. When Jack asked Juliet to get the emergency defibrillation paddles - she said they did not "have a need" until then. Why wouldn't they? They are used in case of heart failure and standard E.R. equipment. There are also no real doctors there. Also no need? Maybe no one gets sick (or shot) much. They do seem to have trouble getting pregnant...

So Ben was indeed going to "break" Jack to see if Jack would do the surgery, - not to actually get Jack to do it, but just to test him. He does love to test people. Poor Sawyer and that bunrab!

Pondering why Smokey did not kill Eko the first time but did this last time...I guess the whole idea about Eko finding peace, as Brian says, could be the reason.

Maybe the Island does have a battle of forces going on with a good Smokey with horses and Jack's Dad and Bright lights and a bad smokey that is just a killer. But if good and bad are apart of the core equation that balances the earth then it could simply mean Eko was no longer needed.

Change the people, change the equation - at any cost- and save the world: The Dharma imperative. In that thinking, Eko was thought to be not needed any longer - his death helped save the world.

- Web Buffy