Wednesday, January 28, 2009

"Jughead" Instant Reactions!

Brian's Four Word Review: Time and Mind Bending

So, I think I understand how the skipping all works out now... and it's exactly how Faraday told us originally. Why didn't I listen to him?

Whatever happened, happened.

  • Why was Alpert present when Locke was born? Because Locke told him when it would happen, and Alpert went there as a way to determine if Locke was telling the truth. This must have semi-blown Alpert's mind, since he continued to visit Locke over the course of his youth - and this helps explain why the Island Originals all thought he was so special... because he is a freaking time traveling, future predicting "old guy"!
  • But does this mean that Locke really isn't that special or "chosen"? If the Island Originals only think he's special due to his time skipping, is he really the best choice for the future leader of the Others?
  • This also means that Desmond must be an exception instead of the rule, since he just had the memory of Faraday visiting him at the Swan Hatch in 2008 instead of always having it?
  • Did you catch the scenes from the preview from next week? Showing Locke seeing the light shooting up from the Swan Hatch (the ending scene from "Deus Ex Machina"!) as well as Sawyer stumbling upon Kate helping Claire deliver Aaron (the ending scene from "Do No Harm"!) Time to go back and re-watch some Season One episodes!
  • What this means pretty much blows my mind though. Does that mean that Sawyer could run into himself? Wouldn't that rip apart the space-time continuum, a la Back to the Future? Remember this video from last year's Comic-Con where Chang is freaking out about two #8 Rabbits running into each other?! Mind = Blown.

  • My mind can't quite wrap around what this means for characters like Locke, Sawyer, and Juliet. Do they have the memories of 2004 from two perspectives now? Or since they are the ones "skipping", do their minds travel in a single, straight line? That seems most logical (and easiest to explain). The Island Originals would have all these memories from the time skippers visiting them in the past, but it wouldn't force us to re-evaluate everything that our Skipping Survivors did on the Island, taking into account the things they learned in the past when they started skipping. I'll try to explain this again using real words in the analysis, since I'm sure that made no sense!
  • Remember what Faraday told Desmond when he started to become "unstuck" in time? He asked if Desmond had been subjected to an intense does of radiation or electromagnetic energy. Clearly, Desmond had been exposed to the later in the Swan Hatch, and he needed a Constant. But Daniel also had a Constant. Why? Well, guess who was just exposed to a high does of radiation in this episode when inspecting the Jughead? 
  • Speaking of which, of course the "Deeper Meaning" of the episode is something totally literal - but at least we all knew what a "Jughead" was now!
  • CHARLES WIDMORE USED TO BE ON THE ISLAND. But was he an Island Original? Did he start to age once he left the Island? Or do only some Island Originals not age (like Alpert)? And how did he leave the Island? Was he kicked off? Why does he think that Ben "stole it" from him? It sure didn't look like he was "owning" it when Richard was bossing him around. Maybe he simply views Ben as "ruining" the Island once he started running the show, and Widmore doesn't so much want to turn the Island into a theme park, but wants to restore it to its natural, pre-Ben order when they were able to have babies and lived peacefully. Or is the reason Widmore got booted because he wanted to go commercial on the Island? Lots to think about here.
  • Did you guys watch the "Enhanced" repeat of "The Lie" beforehand? Guess what they said Ms. Hawking's first name was? ELOISE. Just like Faraday's rat. It looks like she is definitely going to end up being Faraday's mother. Also, who names a rat after their mom?
  • Here's something else to think about. Is the Girl Soldier on the Island Faraday's Mom as well? Remember how he said she looked familiar to him? Well, if Widmore is off the Island, it would stand to reason that she could have left the Island as well. It would be a possible explanation for why she knows so much about the Island and how / where to find it. Once again, mind = blown, and I need to think about this more.
  • Discuss!
  • http://facethewoods.com/lost/index.php?topic=371.0

91 comments:

Anonymous said...

mind = blown is exactly what i texted my friend

i believe the chick on the island with the gun at the bomb with faraday was named ellie...could be short for eloise....seems like a slam dunk now, also his mom is in LA which is where we know ms hawking to be....

Justin said...

The picture Desmond found of Faraday and his mother in his old lab, looked exactly like the girl who held Faraday at gunpoint! Also do you think a nuclear bomb being barried somewhere in the ground will come into play at all in future episodes? Desmond episodes are always the best. Tonight was no different.

Anonymous said...

I think we can definitely assume that "Ellie" or "Elle" the blonde girl soldier with the others, is Farraday's mother. This means that she was on the island with Charles Widmore in the '50s. I think this leads to a pretty clear tie between Widmore and the farraday's (hence Widmore funding Daniels research and taking care of the woman who seemed to have been in a vegetative state but more likely had her brain transported to another time by daniel).

This episode was fantastic, hope they can keep it up

Rebecca said...

WOW. I wasn't expecting Widmore to be an island original/other, I assumed he was Dharma. Maybe he thinks Ben stole the island from him because he wanted to be the next leader. What if during time travel Locke sees Ben & tells him that he was the leader so Alpert thinks he should be??? I loved that Des & Penny named the baby Charlie :tear: When Widmore said that Faraday's mom was in LA I immediately thought of Mrs. Hawking - maybe naming the rat after her was an endearing thing?? Or he had issues with his mom ;) I was also wondering if the blond could have been Penny's mom but Faraday's makes more sense, her hair wasn't quite in a bun but close. It looks like Penny & little Charlie will be with Des when he goes to LA and likely to the island so I'm thrilled that they can go with! Though, if he did have to leave them behind wouldn't the world implode or something if he didn't go back to save everyone. The time skipping & memories still has me confused but I'm glad we're finally getting SOME answers. Now, if they get to that 4 toed statue....and everything else we still don't understand!

Anonymous said...

so is it possible that the nuclear bomb has something to do with the reason the hatch is around and the pushing of the button in the first place????

i believe the swan was electromagnatism but as we know h-bombs give off an electromagnetic pulse equal to the blast radius and would knock out electronics in that radius if the bomb didnt destory everything

Rebecca said...

Another thought - Jughead is what was at the Dharma station that Faraday & Charlotte disarmed right? Or was it the thing that blew at the hatch?? I was thinking the first but saw some thoughts on another site & people kept referring to the hatch. What if Widmore is also Faraday's dad...do we know anything about his dad?? The connections just keep popping up!

CJ said...

I'm sure it's a ridiculous thought, but what if baby Charlie is really the SAME Charlie we already know and love?

Anonymous said...

A thought that just occurred to me, des and penny's son is named charlie, which could be seen as being really cute b/c of island charlie's death and every thing. But don't forget Penny's dads name is Charles....

Anonymous said...

yes, I think Charlie is actually Charles Widmore, and Des & Pen are Adam & Eve! Charlie and Ellie are Daniel's parents, so D&P are his grandparents...

Justin said...

Whispers in the jungle = our characters skipping through time... how's that for blowing your mind?

hope said...

I thought maybe the island girl was Penny's mother. How did Widmore know that Desmond had a message to deliver?

Jabbadoo said...

Hmmm I'm thinking that maybe instead of Mrs Hawking being Daniel's mom, maybe it was the butcher shop lady Ben spoke to when asking her to hide Locke.

Anonymous said...

I agree with an earlier poster that thought that Widmore is Faraday's dad. Perhaps he and Ellie left the island together had Daniel, then had a falling out and each is trying to get the island back, Ellie with Ben and Widmore though Daniel.

The theory on the whispers is great too!

Whiza said...

Great - altho not the full story revealed but at least we no longer have to guess what Widmore's connection with the island is - phew!

Recommend you look again at previous episodes with Widmore & Desmond scenes. First time you see them you think gee Widmore is so mean but rewatching you start to think - Widmore is manipulating Desmond - he's ensuring that he does go to the island and push the button.

Becca said...

Mind blowing indeed! It's amazing how well planned everything is... pieces just fell right into place. This is among my favorite "explanatory" episodes so far...

hope: I'd have to go back and watch the episode again, but maybe Widmore assumed he won't be looking for Faraday's mom if someone didn't tell him to look for her.

Anonymous said...

anonymous at 11:01, please explain what you mean, I am totally confused!

Anonymous said...

What if Desmond, Penelope, and little Charlie go back in time on the island? Would little Charlie grow up to be Charles Widmore? And is Penelope Widmore actually Charles Widmore's mother?

Right now I would assume his name is Charlie Hume, but you never know, right?

But then you have to ask who are Penny's real parents?

Jordan said...

Does anyone remember the episode "Catch-22," the one where the flashbacks dealt with Desmond at the monastery? Well, if you think really hard (or go back and watch), you'll remember that on the desk of Brother Campbell (the head of the monastery) was a picture of Ms. Hawking! Now wtf is that all about!?

J. said...

Here's something to ponder, Alpert is the only genuine island original left. My reasoning being, he has no discernible accent. Unlike all the other "others" we see this episode. Widmore and Ellie, and so on, have accents, so must not be island originals but descendant of people who found the island (maybe aboard the black rock).

Anonymous said...

interesting to think that Whitmore and Mrs. Hawking were together at some point and gave birth to Faraday. It is a guarantee that Mrs Hawking is Faraday's mother....I wonder how she became an expert in time/space travel?

Don't you think that Whitmore will follow Faraday to LA?

Scoobs said...

I think that the H-bomb ends up getting buried under the Swan hatch and "the button" has to be pushed to keep it from detonating. Remember how Kelvin was actually military (in Sayid's flashback)? He was probably sent to the island to keep the bomb under control by pushing the button. When Desmond ends up turning the failsafe key, it detonates the bomb, which makes the hatch explode, but also exposes him to big-time radiation. Penny's search crew was probably looking for a spike in radiation globally, which is how the island suddenly appeared on the radar they were monitoring.

Anonymous said...

Justin... Your whispers = time skipping thought was genious dude!

I don't have any theories or deep thoughts like everyone else here, but I do have a question: Everything on Lost seems to have meaning to the story in some way. So, what is the significance of the bomb being named "Jughead?" Or is that some obvious thing that I've missed (which wouldn't be a first)?

Randy

Anonymous said...

@ 11.01

I was just saying that while it seemed like Des and Penny's son was named after Charlie Pace he could just have easily be named after Penny's father Charles. Not really very important, just interesting.

Steve said...

Where to start.. well, first I have to say "12 monkees" time travel model. I knew it. My guess is that they'll try their best to avoid running into themselves, but we may see sawyer run into kate or something like that, and Kate may not know it's future Sawyer. If they do run into someone, time will correct itself, and with the desmond model, they'll wake up with a memory one day. Or is Desmond just special?

I want to mention Widmore. Think about this, he financed Faraday, and knew exactly where his mother was. However, Ben is pals with Faradays mom, so she's not on Widmores side. Is she on anyones? Or if she is that girl on the island, maybe it's because her and Widmore are others, but she's not on his side?

Justin: the picture that Des found of Faraday was with his girlfriend, the woman who was jumping through time that he apparently 'abandoned'. I had thought the same thing about the picture looking like the girl in the photo, but I like the mom theory better as this woman would be about the age of Faradays mom now.

Anon: Interesting thought on the H-Bomb, but if you're going to build a hatch around it... why not diffuse it. But I'm going to keep that idea in the back of my head. He did say to bury in in concrete. What would the failsafe had done? Maybe it moved the bomb in time, maybe back to 1954? Hmm... it WAS a flash. Could it me that if the island jumps around too much that it may trigger the bomb in the past? And could a leaking h-bomb suggest radiation sickness.... but Though I am still inclined to think of the sickness as the time travel/nose bleed scenario. Just something to chew on.

As for the photo in the monestary desk in catch-22. I think it's obvious that Hawkings and the Monestary head were working together to try to influence Des to get to the island. He may be a Faraday Dad canidate as well. But to suggest that Widmore is Faradays dad Lost could top Star Wars with the whole family thing. We already have Jack and Claire as brother sister.. and Lockes dad being the real sawyer..and all those other smaller connections. Having Penny and Farraday as half bother-sister would go too far, but an interesting thought.

Some thoughts about Widmore as a youth. He appears to be a real a$$. He's kind of knee jerk in his reactions too... but obviously he's done well for himself. I think this points towards Ben being right about him being the bad guy. Notice that after he 'left' the military uniforms left the other's camp. His evil is more obvious than the manipulative Ben... but with ben, you're just not sure.I kind of like the idea of Ben being on the 'good' side.

This gets back to the Lord of the Flies theory. We ran this with Jack and Locke a while back, but this may be going on with Ben and Widmore as well. If you read up on the story, and i remember correctly, one guy is the more intelligent leader, and the other was less of the thinker and more of a brute force to solve problems a$$. I think this fits Ben(thinker) vs Widmore(brute force) much better than it ever did jack and locke. Note that Widmore doesn't appear to be a leader and gets little respect from Alpert. Alpert said that leaders were selected from an early age. So he doesn't appear to be a chosen one.

I also want to mention Alperts response when young locke took the knife instead of the book of laws. It could be he was hoping that he would NOT be a chosen one, and that the knife was indeed correct. He may have been angry because old Locke had been telling the truth, and maybe he WAS the chosen one. Or maybe not. Remember, this 'test' was similar to the Buddhist test for finding the reincardation of the Dalai Lama.

Which brings me to my last point. "Latin" being the language of the enlightened. This is interesting to me. Enlightended, as with Namaste (on the painting in Widmore office) as well as the heavy Buddhist references with the Dharma Initiative. However, Latin has NOTHING to do with such an eastern philosphy. I'm thinking that the Buddist refernces merged in with the others after Dharma... but we'll see. We see referenses to God, Ancient Egypt, Latin(Rome?) and Bhuddism. Just a note to the use of Latin... may be a hint to the origin of the others.

I think that's enough for now.... but wow.. is this getting really good.

Steve said...

One more Widmore vs Ben Lord of the Flies type comment.

Maybe Widmore sided with the Dharma initiative, but Ben jumped from Dharma to the others. We know he met Richard Alpert in the woods in his youth. Maybe this is part of the larger war of Dharma vs the others.. and may have setoff the purge... but Widmore got away(as well as faradays mother?) Just a thought. I think I'm digging way too deep.

And condider that if Penny is half(or full) other, what does that make Charlie Hume?

Dave said...

Both Widmore and Mrs. Hawking tried to keep Des from marrying Penny.

They made it seem that Widmore just didn't like Desmond, but if he knew and was working with Mrs. Hawking they could have been working together.

I thought that might also explain the connection to the monks, but he got kicked out of the monastery and that is where he met Penny.

So if Ben is working with Mrs. Hawking and Widmore is working with Mrs Hawking, and Ben and Widmore hate each other, who is the double-crosser? has to be Mrs. Hawking! So who is she really working for?

Anonymous said...

I was a bit bothered that Desmond didn't stick around and tell Faraday's girlfriend about finding a Constant.

RIP said...

My Head Is Spinning !!!

Now that I have read your blog I am going back to watch the episode again with new eyes !

Thanks for all your insight.

Brian said...

Is Locke Jacob? If you look at the Jacob scenes, he kind of looks like Jacob. Just a thought.

Lizzy said...

Do you think there is a chance that Christian Shepard is also one of those 1950's island people with Widmore & Daniel's mom? Maybe we will see that in a future episode?

Freedom! said...

Again with the anti-capitalism stuff Brian. What gives? There is no evidence that Widmore wants to "go commercial" (whatever that means). Thus far, Mr. Widmore seems to have as much of if not more of a claim to the Island as Ben does.

Steve said...

I don't think Locke is Jacob. Alpert seemed to know Jacob well in 1954... unless he jumps way back. I don't see this, but since he dies and comes back to the island, I would't rule anything out.

One note on Alpert.. not related to the show The actor who plays him, or at leat this character looks reminds me of a guy I used to work for my first summer out of high school. What stunned me was when I found his name, because the guy I worked for was named "Richard Albert".

Could he have been checking me out for future leader of the others?

Dj RyB said...

Not sure if someone said this but if Farraday's mother gets off the island like Widmore, is it possible that Widmore is also Farraday's father? That would be crazy...

Smaelb said...

For those (Brian ? :) ) who think that Locke created a paradox and "made up his own legend", remember that he's also the one who's healed from a paralysis. And we still have to see how this prophecy (wheelchair man..) came up (another time travel ? )

Anonymous said...

Brian suggests that maybe Locke is not special and made Richard believe given him predicting the future. Evidently, when Richard and Locke are together in this episode, it is prior to Richard becoming hip to time travel possibilities. My point though is as follows....don't you think that once Richard learns of time travel, etc, he will come to measure Locke by other attributes? In other words, hard to believe Richard would continue to believe Locke is the chosen one purely on the basis that Locke predicted the future considering that Richard eventually perfects time travel himself. Make sense?

Steve said...

Freedom,

Anti-Capitalism? I hope you're joking! We're talking Lost theories.. not economics or politics.

While it's valid that the show hasn't suggested that Widmore has wanted to make a profit from the island, if you have been reading these blogs, this is one of many long standing theories as to why he may want to find the island. Last night, we found out he was an originally an 'Other'.

The idea of making a profit from a resort with a man and midget in a white tuxes that grants wishes with an occational visit from Charo may not be as valid as a couple days ago, it's still a theory.

I'm going with the split 'others' group with Ben eventially driving Widmore from the island. I see widmore more as the killer than Ben, but we know that Ben did to the purge. Again, it may be that Widmore sided with Dharma vs Ben who went from Dharma to the others. Either way, they obviously have a hatred that goes a long way back. Widmores soliers plan to destroy every living thing on the island reminds me of the burning of the island on lord of the flies, BUT.. Bed also gassed every living thing. Lets get back to a phisosophy of... is there really a good and evil? or it is just perception? I'm dropping who the good guy is, and saying that we're caught between a personal feud between two people.

Anonymous said...

What does everyone (anyone) make of when the gal on the island (carrying the rifle) comments to Faraday "you just couldn't stay away, huh?"? (sic). Clearly, no indication was given that she recognized Faraday but perhaps made a generic comment related to who she perceives Faraday to be representing. Thoughts/comments anyone? Brian???

Anonymous said...

Quick Question:

What was up with the dude in Faraday's old lab when Desmond went to Oxford?

I thought he told Desmond he wasn't the first one to come in that room.

I didn't get what was going on in that scene. Anybody have a clue.

VictorC said...

How did Faraday find out they were 50 years in the past?

The thought of Desmond's son, Charlie being Charles Widmore gives me the biggest headache.
Is Penny Widmore's daughter? is Widmore Penny's son?
What the heck? which one happened first?
Craziness, lol.

Smaelb said...

On the capitalism

All we know about Widmore's intentions towards the island is what ben told locke (all that stuff with thousands of people around the virgin mary cake). And we all learned not to believe everything Mr Linus says. Seems to me that Widmore and ben are fighting over a girl :) and that girl keeps moving, can't catch that fickle bitch..

Anonymous said...

The hell is Bernard and Rose?

Anonymous said...

The hell is Bernard and Rose?

-RobRose

Phuu said...

With the scene in the Faraday's lab, it made sense to me as follows:

Classic B horror movie stuff.
Faraday was performing the rat experiments then progressed to human trials, they went bad. The girl gets messed up and his experiment is "exposed" and people call him a nut, and Oxford gets rid of him. Students spread the story so every so often some one would go investigae.

A note on Locke/Alpert:
We saw Alpert give the compass to Locke tell him the next time they meet Alpert would not remember Locke, implying that it would be a type of pass/key. But what we saw was Alpert look at it as he hadn't seen it before, it was only the mention of Jacob that got attention.

I have some thouhgts on the compass and the tests but I can't come up with a way of making it rational.

All the skipping in time seems dangerously close to making the "grandfather Paradox". Even though they say you can't change anything. The universe course correcting as in "flashes before your eyes" seems to say otherwise. That would imply you can change the event but the original outcome would eventually happnen.

I'll have to move to the message board for more I guess.

Jan said...

I distinctly heard Daniel call the girl with the rifle 'mom' when she was walking him to the bomb. I'll have to watch again, but I'm pretty sure.

Jan said...

nevermind.

At 31:44 he says, 'if you want to take care of this bomb, you bury it.'

It sounded to me at first like he said 'if you want to take care of this, mom, you bury it.'

Anonymous said...

First time poster, long time reader.

I think we'll see that Widmore is not the "bad guy" on the show - his being an "other" gives him credibility in his quest for the island.

Maybe there is no "good guy" vs "bad guy" at the end of the story on Lost.

As per Des and Penny's son - I think Charlie is just named in honour of our dearly departed musician.

Keep up the good work.

Abby in Toronto

Anonymous said...

I think that people are using the time travel thing to make a few illogical jumps.

Is it plausible to think that Faraday could be the son of Widmore and Hawking? Sure.

Is it plausible to think that Desmond and Penny are the parents of Charlie Pace? Um ... no.

michael said...

just remember the words of Doc Brown:

"you're just not thinking 4th dimensionally!"

Darren said...

Desmond is different to the others as it seems that he is the only one who's past/present/future can be changed or manipulated. Like the way that Faraday mentionned that whats happened, happened but Faraday was able to tell Desmond in the past to look for his mother in the present. I think thats what makes Desmond "special"...

Any thoughts - may have been discussed already...

Lizzy said...

Do you think that Locke being dead (in a coffin) and having to return to the Island is related to Jack's dad returning to the Island dead (in a coffin)?

Dave said...

What would have happened if Locke or Sawyer had shot and killed Widmore as he was running away?

Brian said...

Lock or Sawyer wouldn't have been able to kill Widmore even if they wanted to because that's not his destiny. Just like Michael couldn't kill himself after he got back to the States. His destiny was to die on the ship.
(FYI) - This is a different Brian. The blogger Brian, keep up the good work. Love your theories.

Anonymous said...

totally agree with Anony 3:57....good idea to drop the theory that Charlie could somehow be Desmond's and Penny's son. Far more logical to assume they named their first born after Charlie for not only sacrificing his life for the Island but also in given Des a heads-up on Penny's phone call as a final and last act of heroism.

ninja raiden said...

Hey, Brian! Could Theresa Spenser be the infamous Annie from the Dharma Initiative? Her sister says she wakes up looking for her "dolly" (Ben's doll?). Plus she has a different reaction to the "sickness". Plus, with what we've seen of Widmore, could it be that he would be so spiteful of Ben that he would lock Annie away with the help of a possibly unknowing Faraday? What do you guys think of that theory?

Andrew said...

rewatching the episode right now. so good. Good thing Locke didn't shoot Widmore when he escaped. Then no Penny and no desmond trying to prove his worth by sailing, and no desmond saving the world one button push at a time, etc. etc.

Anonymous said...

Grandfather paradox worked out fine in futurama!

Anonymous said...

What if the jughead was the thing behind the concrete wall in the Swan Hatch?

DCrowley said...

I've been curious what's behind the concrete fill in the Swan too. From what I remember, when Jack was investigating it, there was a hum from behind the wall and the armory key (I think?) was pulled up towards the concrete.

The Jughead wasn't humming when Faraday looked it over on the Army's stand, but... after talking to Lisa, I think it's crazy theory time.

I don't know of anything that can "pause" a nuclear weapon from exploding. I doubt it's possible. BUT: when a nuclear weapon goes off, it generates an electromagnetic pulse. This fries pretty much any unshielded circuitry in its range, which can be miles.

Crazy theory says the bomb's been TRYING to go off and the Swan/numbers combo is staving it off - but when the numbers aren't entered, the bomb makes progress. Beginning stages of the EMP -might- account for the "everything metal flying around the hatch" and even knocking out the circuitry of 815.

Problem is, the bombs also generate lots and lots of heat and radiation, and those haven't been evident.

Also, what did the failsafe do? In the crazy scenario, it couldn't have let the bomb just go off - there'd be way more devastation (and radiation sickness).

So: Crazy Theory #2! I'll assume that the failsafe is a not-quite-worst-case-scenario sort of thing - it probably isn't preferable to entering the numbers, or else whoever set it up would've just used the failsafe immediately.

We know the Orchid station contains the FDW, which (as one side effect) takes whatever turns it (Ben, polar bear) and sends it far away from the island. If the Swan failsafe is connected to something similar - bomb goes away, but still goes off SOMEWHERE. Just not on the island.

Pushing the button is described as "saving the world." What happens when you mix nuclear weapons and the island's weird energy? Maybe it's bad enough that the description's accurate.

Thing is, these theories together imply that Desmond turning the key means an H-bomb is now going to go off somewhere (and someWHEN) unexpected. I kind of hope the last episode doesn't involve a mushroom cloud.

lost and back again said...

Lizzy, you said…
“Do you think there is a chance that Christian Shepard is also one of those 1950's island people with Widmore & Daniel's mom?”

I was thinking along those lines, too! Could Christian Shepard be father to more people than just Jack and Claire? Daniel Faraday, for instance? Or (drum roll here) Desmond Hume? And (keep the drum rolling) could Desmond’s baby Charlie be grandson to Christian Shepard and also “special”? And also potentially on a path leading to the Island?

Lizzy, you also said…
“Do you think that Locke being dead (in a coffin) and having to return to the Island is related to Jack's dad returning to the Island dead (in a coffin)?”

Again, I was thinking along those lines, too!

Claire arrived on the island accompanied by a dead body: Christian Shepard. Last we saw, she was in Jacob’s Cabin. Locke arrived at the Others camp with a dead body: Anthony Cooper. The next thing we know he’s taken to Jacob’s Cabin. Who’ll be the next dead body to show up? Locke. And who wants to return with him? Ben. But really, actual special people will also arrive with dead Locke: Aaron and baby Charlie.

lost and back again said...

Ben is the man!
Ben always has a plan.

While he lets Mrs. Hawking think she’s the boss of him, maybe she’s not.

Maybe instead of real cops, those were Ben’s men outside of Hurley’s house. And now Ben has Hurley and Mrs. Hawking doesn’t.

Jamie Packham said...

I've always been fuzzy on why the island disappeared at the end of season 4.
Now that it's clear people on the island are skipping through time, and not the island itself it makes it even less clear, as the island went no where.
At first I figured maybe the correct approach to the island had changed, but it didn't really wash.

Now I have no experience with H-bombs thankfully, but Faraday clearly states that should it detonate it could destroy the island. Could it be that for the briefest times, we see the future, and the bomb has exploded destroying the island?

Certainly the location of the bomb (assuming the Others 50's camp is in a similar location to their '00s camp) then the Hatch was no where near, and certainly I wouldn't want to be the one carting an H-bomb across the island to be buried.

Anonymous said...

not exactly sure what Ninja is suggesting and maybe the same as what I am about to put out there....what about Ben's childhood galfriend from DHARMA? Was her name Annie? I would doubt that the writters would drop that storyline from several seasons ago leaving us to think Ben killed her along with the rest of the group in the purge. How and when do you think she'll emerge....in what sort of role....having what type impact on the storylines here???

Smaelb said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Smaelb said...

a disarmed Jughead could be under the swan, this would explain the quarantine sign and the fact that Walt told Locke to stay out of it.. What do you think ?

Steve said...

I think the island has moved in space... but is skipping in time.

Note Mrs. Hawkings pendelum maps showing multiple possible locations in the pacific! Also note the event window message with the computer map of the same locations.

No, it disapeared in location... I think anyway.

Steve said...

Concerning Christian Sheppard.
I suppose that anything is possible, but with all the Chrstian Sheppard is alive rumors a couple years ago, Carlton and Damon have repeatedly said in Podcasts that he is definately dead and not alive.

Though the empty coffin makes us speculate, Damon and Carlton don't 'lie' when the address something directly like that. Now, it's possible that the story line may have changed as long as it doesn't affect the ending. Remember Ben was only going to be a 3 episode character so things do change.

I look at lost this way. They had the overall plot, an ending, and a mythology in place. They knew where they were going from season one, but they didn't have a map on how to get there.

They considered killing Jack in episode 1, Ben was supposed to be in 3 episodes in season 2. A lot can happen in 3 years. People can leave the show, even die! Look at Alpert. If his show "Caine" had not been canceled, think about how this would affect season 5? And the mythology and time? The show must go on. Just glad he's under contract now!

Dave said...

What gets lost in all of this is that in the 50s the US Military knew of the island and how to get to it.

Have they lost interest in trying to locate it (and the soldiers who were killed there by the originals) in the last 50 years?

Anonymous said...

Steve....you raise good points many of which have crossed my mind too from time to time over the past few years. However, I understand from various podcasts, etc that the ex-writting team had more of a total road map and not just an overall story arc. For example, with a character like Ben Linus, they always knew they had to cast someone to serve as the leader of "the others". Mike Emerson got the job, as you suggest, given the terrific performances he did back in season (2?) and was written in accordingly. Sure...on that note, we still never learned...and prosumably never will learn....who the hot air ballon guy really was, etc but gotta allow for some holes in this story and mythology. I suppose, the same logic holds true for the character of Jack....until Mat Fox proved himself, the writters may not have known who would emerge as worthy of being the leader of the Lostees.

Anonymous said...

this question was raised earlier but should be explored and speculated about.....

what do people, other than our time traveling LOSTEE's experience when the "flash" occurs? in other words, what is their perspective of what is occuring? Do they hold memories of what happened so far as interacting with these people, etc? It's a bit confusing and if a good theory related to this is put forth, it could add to our collective viewing pleasure I think.

Jabbadoo said...

I think the island is moving and the people are stationary.... and there are whispery overlaps when people from different times are in the same space, maybe that's what the warped sounding whispers are...

Anonymous said...

Desmond and Penny's son is named "Charlie" after Charlie Pace, but my understanding is that Charlie is usually just a nickname for Charles, correct?

So if Charles, son of Penny, takes her maiden name, then his name would be Charles Widmore.

If all three go back in time on the island, then Penny Widmore is actually Charles Widmore's mother, not his daughter.

What if Penny really ends up being Jacob's daughter, or something like that? Then wouldn't the island belong to Jacob, Penny, and Charles? Maybe that's why Charles Widmore thinks he owns the island..

Lisa said...

Anonymous at 12:27:
We know that people have memories of interacting with the Losties because Richard remembers Locke telling him when he'll be born. That's why Richard shows up at the hospital when Locke is a baby.

Anonymous at 1:42:
I think you're being pretty ridiculous. I don't think Widmore is his own grandfather. I'm pretty sure that Desmond and Penny just named their child after the man who sacrificed his life to save Desmond and bring him and Penny back together. This show may be weird, but it's not that weird.

Anonymous said...

I repeat:

If all three go back in time on the island, then Penny Widmore is ACTUALLY Charles Widmore's MOTHER, NOT his DAUGHTER.

So Charles Widmore would not be his own grandfather/grandson.

I asked what if SOMEONE ELSE is actually Penny's father, but Charles Widmore somehow has to raise his own mother after they are forced to leave the island together. This would, of course, assume that Penny was born on the island.

Yes, it is a crazy idea, but it's not quite THAT crazy.

:)

Anonymous said...

sorry girls...

but generaly they name a child with is father name.. so its probably Charlie Hume... or Charlie Hume Widmore... im pretty sure that Charlie is not Charles Widmore

but maybe Desmond is a gentleman and accept to name is son without is familyname


sorry for my poor english too

hobbes said...

Wow enough already with the paternity talk, its lame even for crazy Lost theory standards.

Charles Widmore is Penny's father.
Charlie Hume is the son of Des and Pen named after Charlie Pace it's just that simple. The only real question of who's a parent of who is Daniel Faraday mother since and only since Desmond is on a mission to find her so he can deliver Daniel's message. (See the PERIOD at the end of the sentence). But we can probably place safe bets on the whole Eloise Hawking / Ellie being Mommy Faraday.

The ongoing suggestion that somehow Charlie Hume somehow becomes Charles Widmore of the past to raise his mother as his own daughter is, as Lisa said "ridiculous". And after 74 posts wasted time discussing in further. Sorry to ruin your meanderings.


Also highly apophenic (making random connections where there are none) is that the "concrete" used to seal and bury Jughead is the same "concrete" used in the mysterious Swan Hatch wall. Albeit more reasonable to listen to.
But this of course isn't to say that Jughead won't come into play later. Having a nuke on the island is a pretty big wildcard. Faraday said nothing happens because the island is still here in 50 years but whose to say year 51 won't be different. Or perhaps in some Star Trekian way, to seal a rift in the fabric of space-time a nuke might be handy (LOL).

jon said...

Great episode!

A thought: know that three years has passed since Jack & co left the island. Their storyline has mostly (apart from some flashback) skipped that period and is centred around what happens now (i.e. after those three years).

I wonder how the "stayers" (Faraday, Locke & co) storyline will be worked out. Will they also spend a sum total duration of three years in skipping mode. That is, one day in 1954 + flash + one day in 2000 + ... and so on until all those days have added up to three years worth.

alternative 1: yes, they will spend a sum total of 3 years skipping.

Then the writers will at some time or other have to add a similar skip in the narrative, since there are obviously not enough episodes to cover three years of events in detail, especially since each skip seems to last less than a day. Perhaps the stayers get stuck for a longer period in some temporary (non-eventful) haven somewhere in time and we get a black "almost three years later" sign and then then a new skip and the more intense storytelling picks up.inform us that they stay there for a duration of almost three years.

One reason for doubting alternative 1, at least with the current short stays at each skip time location, is that then the characters would then probably have had endless encounters with originals, dharma folks, themselves and so on over the course of those three years. Richard Alpert would, after three years worth of skipping, meet skipping-Locke at a great number of times. That's unlikely I think. It would be too repetitive.

So for alternative 1 my guess is that there'll be a skip that last significantly longer or many skips so far away in time that Alpert & co are not encountered.

Or:

alternative 2: no, they will not spend a sum-total of 3 years skipping.

That opens up some mindblowing possibilities. The stayers could get either a much shorter or much longer period of sum total skipping time compared to the three years.

This means that if the leavers get back to the island and can stop the skipping, then the stayers/skippers could have spent anything between a week and 50 years of time skipping during those three years of standard time. They might escape the skipping only as physically very old.

VictorC said...

hobbes, did Brian make you a moderator in here? No, he didn't.

If people want to speculate, let them speculate, that's part of why they're here.

If you don't like it, ignore it, no need to complain about it.

jon said...

there's a lot of typos and cut and paste errors in my post above. Sorry, I wrote it quickly. I hope the main points are understandable anyway.

hobbes said...

Sure Vic, whatever you say man!

jon said...

Right, I agree with Victor. Let's all keep a friendly tone. I say bring on all time theories - the more the merrier! :-) After all, the show we all love has just opened up so many new possibilities by adding the mind boggling time-travel component. This is what makes LOST so great and stimulating - we viewers are lured in to the mystery and take joy in speculating about them and trying to figure out how the story could unravel.

hobbes said...

Perhaps the Secondary Protocols that Keamy had, are to do with Jughead. Assuming that a young Widmore would know the location of the buried nuke.

Anonymous said...

i agree with Victor... let people talk and shut up if your not happy

Anonymous said...

Love your blog. Don't want to start any trouble, but I thought you might want to know that I noticed the majority of your post here very lightly edited & re posted elsewhere. Maybe it's all on the up-and-up, (and if so, I apologize for sticking my nose in it) but check out the "questions & comments" at the end of this post....
http://outtamymindwithworry.blogspot.com/2009/01/lost-discussion-thursday_28.html#links

Brian said...

Yeah - apparently that guy is copying my Instant Reactions and claiming them for his own. I left a Comment on his Blog about it.

That seems kinda sketchy to me. It's not like I make any money on doing this, but it would be nice if he would link back to my Blog or reference it, instead of claiming my words as his own.

Full analysis should be up today!

Brian said...

PS - hobbes and VictorC , no fighting on my Blog!

Anonymous said...

Cant wait for your analysis !! like i cant wait for another episode ! Brian your the best.. if people try to use your word.. its cuz your a god for him ;) take it like a compliment

Anonymous said...

I love your blogs dude. I read them every week. Keep up the good work!!

VictorC said...

Brian, did you read hobbes's comment? or mine?
I wasn't starting any fights, quite the opposite.

heliopath said...

i dont know much about timetravel but radiation seems to be the key of lost time travel.
jughead buried = orchid station?
exposure to radiation = the cure to not get nose bleeds?
both farraday and desdmond are quite chilled out with the flashes, and like brian you said faraday asked desmnond about the radiation/electromag thing. also farraday scoffed off exposure to radiation.

i dunno it seems all a bit curious.

also young charlie widmore is as much of an asshole as old dude.

Anonymous said...

not dead nor alive. is christian shepard skipping too?

Rob Rose said...

I'm gonna go ahead and predict that The Survivors on the island specifically LOCKE AND SAWYER will have the ability to see themselves walking around the island in 2004. Mainly because the way in which they are traveling through time is in no way similar to how Desmond/Minkowski/Etc... have been jumping through time in that the Survivors are leaping to points in time before they were born, in the bodies of themselves in 2005.

...With that said, as much as I'm dying to see something like this, as I go into my brain for episodes from Seasons 1 and 2 and I can't seem to recall a single incident that may have been caused by a Survivor jumping through time. I cant seem to think of any scenes either in which a current day LOCKE or SAWYER would fit into.

... Wow it just dawned on me that the survivors would only be jumping back a month or two at most to get back to Season 1... somehow it feels like 5 years ago..

Anyway, if nothing else there will be a ton of Sawyer attempting to warn Kate of getting on the helicopter, until finally realizing he can't... Of course this will probably also be our mandatory "Dr Artz/Shannon/Boone Returns" episode of the season... And maybe just maybe a LOCKE/BOONE reunion.