Wednesday, May 09, 2007

"The Man Behind the Curtain" Instant Reactions!

Brian's One Word Befuddled Review: Whoa.

Talk about a lot of unexpected things happening in an episode that I saw going down totally differently! I'm not really sure where to begin, because I'm sitting pretty confused right now. Here are some incoherent ramblings to tide you over until I can make more sense of the episode...

  1. Locke. I can honestly say, in the rankings of people who I thought could reasonably die before the season ended, Locke was near the bottom of the list - he just seems like a character so central to the show, and there don't seem to be any other characters who could fill the void that he would leave - that of a person on a spiritual journey with the Island. Having said that, he only received a shot to the stomach, and I could easily see the Island healing him, giving him that much more clout and respect from the Others. For now, I refuse to believe that John Locke is dead.
  2. Patchy. Speaking of dead, Patchy's explanation for his non-death was pretty much as anti-climactic as you can get: "the fence wasn't turned up to a lethal stage". At least we can stop the debate about all the other dead on the Island coming back to live now...
  3. The Others. So it turns out that there really was a purge and Dharma was effectively wiped out, other than Ben. Also, while the Others seem to be semi-hippies, they're not above mass murder, which is nice. But this begs the question - why are the Others continuing to receive the Dharma food drops? How do the Others have such tremendous wealth and power to carry out their wacky schemes? The only thing I can think of is...
  4. Ben. In effect, Ben must have bargained with the Others to earn his place among them. Is it unreasonable to think that the reason Ben has such power over the Others is because he is the one who kept up the "connections" with Dharma, keeping the food drops coming, and maintaining appropriate ties? Also - is it possible that the criteria for Ben being able to join the Others that he made a sacrifice... like killing his own father? Sounds an awfully lot like the sacrifice that Locke had to make to join the Others, doesn't it?
  5. Alpert. Based on Alpert's lack of aging, it seems that the Others really do have some key to the fountain of youth - and that just might be their great secret after all. The weird thing is that the Others seem to be a people who were at peace with the Island... so why would they even want to continue the connections with Dharma / keep Ben in power?
  6. Jacob. Freaky. The first time through, I didn't even notice the figure pushing Ben / close up of the eye of Jacob - but holy crap was it there the second time through on slow motion (thank you DVR). Could it be that Jacob somehow took pity upon Ben for his crappy life, making him visible / audible only to him? This could also explain why Ben was in a position of power among the Others. But what in God's name is Jacob? A manifestation of Smokey? The "spirit" of the Island itself? In either case, why does it need Locke's help? Does the fact that this potentially all-powerful being requested Locke's help guarantee his survival from the gunshot wound? Or is Jacob all smoke and mirrors on Ben's part after all?

I'm so confused. Let's discuss.

95 comments:

Chris B. said...

.......*mouth hanging open*........

Chabeth said...

Just can't believe it...

amber said...

When Ben first saw Alpert in the jungle, & told him he saw his dead mom, I thought Alpert had a weird look. Kind of like "he's special". The fact that he believed Ben saw his dead mom says that freaky stuff happens on the island!

Justin said...

Simply crazy. Locke "died" once in the hatch implosion so he should come back from this, especially if Jacob want's his help like you said. I can see the "war" going down and right in the middle Locke walks in singing "Why Can't We Be Friends?" But seriously, everything I thought I knew went out the window tonight!

amber said...

oh, also, was the sand significant? Why did they make a point to show Ben look at it, & Locke touch it? That was weird. I am never gonna be able to fall asleep tonight!

Jabbadoo said...

Honestly, I don't think I can make it 50 more episodes... I .. can't...so.........confused...yet.....addicted. *flop*

Steve said...

I have no idea.... If Locke is dead, it would really leave an empty feeling in my gut.. no pun intended, but I too am not sure that he's dead.

I think Ben MAY have been acting out the conversation, he sure seemed jealous that he spoke to Locke, almost as if he was upset because Jacob spoke to Locke and not him?

If Jacob is real, and he cured the Rachaels cancer, then he can surely save Locke... after all, he needs his help.

I'm not sure what to think at this point... not what I expected, and I'm not sure that I really liked what I saw.. or maybe I'll appreciate it more once I know what happened!

Terry O'Quinn(Locke) is credited in next weeks episode, but that may be unreliable.

Andrew said...

seriously. That was caaarazy. I don't even know what to say. brian, thanks for at least pulling what you could out of it. I know there's a lot there, but i was expecting a different arc, so i wasn't prepared to analyze the ramifications of a crazy invisible jacob in a cracker barrel rocking chair.

dru said...

amber, I think those were ashes from the vulcano.

Eric said...

Brian- Can you say more about the figure pushing Ben, and the eye of Jacob ... I must have missed it without DVR ...

Thanks!

Chris B. said...

@Amber $ Dru...

I think it might have been gun powder...it was layed out in a pretty nice neat little line.

Adam said...

Ben is evil. EVIL! He killed his own dad without remorse... and let all those innocent people die.. including that chick who made him the dolls? He's an evil guy, holding Jacob prisoner. Locke and the Losties must help Jacob!!!

I think...

Brian said...

Eric - Picture is up on the message board.

Brian said...

I second Eric's query..."the eye of Jacob"?? Where should we look for it?

Brian L.

Stef said...

Holy crap!

Locke can't die?!?

And you said you could see a figure in Jacob's shack? I saw nothing, and I was looking hard. Are there screen shots?

Stef said...

(Ooops - sorry, too excited and had to post right away before reading the comments. Will check the message board now...)

But I also want to agree Amber - I think Richard quickly figured out that there was something special about Ben, just like they'd figure out about Locke 20+ years later.

Eric said...

Thanks Brian -- Holy crap! I have no idea who that might be in the picture ...

Brian said...

More thoughts: let's assume that Jacob is a manifestation of "the Island". Does Jacob saying "help me" indicate that the Island is in trouble? Like Naomi's search party is going to discover them and Locke is the only hope of keeping the Island a secret? My mind is racing with scenes of our Survivors winning some battle only to be hosed by a resurrected Locke in the end...

Eric said...

Brian-

What if it is the other way around? What if the whole "Island," or at least the odd phenomena there, are a manifestation of Jacob? Perhaps he is connected to the ancient civilization (if there was one ... Richard sure didn't look primitive when Ben first met him), or to the Black Rock ... I can't make sense oc it right now!

Anonymous said...

there is a picture, hazy, of jacob on thetailsection. Someone freeze framed this episode.

I think the "sand" was some kind of boundry. It could be gun powder, but what if it was a barrier that Jacob can't cross. There was a movie where spirits could cross boundries made of sand.

Brian said...

The whole "invisible" thing only seen / heard by certain people certainly seems a lot like the movie "The Others" too, doesn't it?

Okay, enough thinking - time for bed. More rants tommorrow :)

Anonymous said...

I hope Locke is not dead. I hope this falls alone the whole, Locke/Jesus thing. If that is the case, he has to "die" to be resurrected, to be the savior.

annie said...

stunned.

THE GREAT ONE said...

holy crap!! man, i am confused as hell....and i agree, lockes comin back. But for next week....bye bye Charlie...

Anonymous said...

What if Jacob isn't invisible. What if it all does have to do with time. Ya know how when u take a picture of the tv or computer, and u see the lines...what if that's the "speed" jacob lives in. It isn't that he is really invisible, its that he is trapped in a time gap of some kind. It might explain the whispers too.

Putney Swope said...

Looking at that freeze frame of Jacob, he looks a awful lot like... BUDDY JESUS! BRIAN IS JACOB! BRIAN IS JACOB! QUICK, LOGOFF NOW! GETAWAY! SAVE YOURSELVES!!!

Anonymous said...

My stream of consciousness is as follows:

1. The Hostiles killed the Dharma Initiative with gas. Is there any significance to that? Why didn't they shoot them? Was it because the could not overpower them through the force of arms? or because gunshot wounds are inadequate to kill people on the Island?

2. The Dharma Initiative kept the Island stocked with supplies prior to the Hostile purge. If there is a central location for the Dharma Initiative, are they aware of the Purge having taken place?

3. Juliet is recruited to the Island because of her ability to create life in her cancer ridden sister. Are the Hostiles/Others hampered by an inability to reproduce?

4. Ben, as a child, sees his dead mother. The Others love children. Any connection between the two?

5. Why did the Dharma Initiative choose the Island? Does that choice have anything to do with the presence of the Hostiles on the Island?

6. Banjamin is one of Biblical Jacob's 12 children. Jewish Mythology (Midrash) asserts that Jacob never really died. Then again, Biblical Jacob does not speak English (or does he?).

7. Why was Locke given a gun in connection with visiting Jacob? What use would a gun be against a creature like Jacob?

DakkonA said...

The gun was probably meant not for use against Jacob, but for protection from Ben.

Heather's Brain said...

For the very first time in all my history of reading this blog...I FINALLY AGREE ONE HUNDRED PERCENT WITH BRIAN...I AM CONFUSED!

There is so much to process!

So many answers, so many WTF, so much...how am I supposed to sleep???

RIP Posts said...

OMG what a fact packed episode. Going to watch it again for sure! This one left me more confused then ever. Can't wait to see your full episode analysis. xoxo Rip

RIP Posts said...

DakkonA said...
The gun was probably meant not for use against Jacob, but for protection from Ben.

12:04 AM

I think you are right!!!

Anonymous said...

Has anyone seen a transcript of the whispers? Anything discernable?

Anonymous said...

My thoughts:

-Alpert is the Man Behind the Curtain
-Locke was given a gun b/c Alex knew he'd need it against Ben, not Jacob
-when Ben was talking about the purge he said he was "one of the ones" smart enough to not be in the ditch...meaning there *were* others from Dharma that survived (at least three I'm thinking based on the "one of" comments)...thinking that Patchy is one, maybe even Bea
-what happened to Annie? I'm surprised that she wasn't shown dead after the purge
-someone mentioned a movie where the spirits couldn't cross a line of sand (or something like that): it was The Skeleton Key (good catch, anon...I couldn't figure out why that was important)

That's all!

4kids4me

Anonymous said...

there is no doubt Locke is alive. The island will heal him, and he'll have even more power with the Others, as suggested previously.

hard to imagine how Albert and the Others were able to take down Dharma given Dharma's stockade of rifles and seemingly preparedness for an attack, huh?

I'm guessing a scenario is that the Others had a deal with Dharma given their communion with the Island, to take out and sacrifice the Dharma people. This is why they continued to receive food and have off-island vast resources.

An alternate scenario could be that the Others were a competing off-island entity...ie; Hanso. Again, we have seen, time and again, the amazing resources of these people and their organization ashore.

Steve said...

That line of sand... that COULD be a prison of sorts.

Did you notice that Ben took extra care to walk OVER it, not through it?

There may be something to Jacob not being able to leave taht area because of the 'line'.

If Jacob cannot be seen unless he CHOOSES to be seen, that could explain the whipsers... but what LOCK heard was NOT a whisper.

Did Jacob say this to Locke? Or someone else.

Oh, and I'd like to see science explain this one!

Anonymous said...

I can't believe Ben's dad is Uncle Rico! Did anyone catch the part where he turned to ben and said "how much you wanna bet I can throw a football over them mountains?" I was really bummed when poor Benny was riding his bike and Daddy threw a steak at him. No wonder the poor boy was scarred! Wait...am I getting this confused with something else?

sandra said...

I have never commented on this blog before--
but wanted to call attention to the similarity between Ben seeing Jacob and the movie "Harvey" with James Stewart. In the movie, James Stewart sees and talks to an imaginary man-sized bunny named Harvey. Most everyone else cannot see him. very similar idea here with Ben and Jacob... and there were a few shots of Ben with that little rabbit, which makes the connection even stronger.

cathy said...

Did anyone sleep last night? I played with my DVR last night and I really think the image in the shack was Ben looking at himself. Ben is not a liar as much as he is completely insane. He believes in Jacob. The "help me" was the sane little boy deep inside Ben. Why didn't Alpert age? Is he a figment too? CFL seems right on about a sickness now. If anyone survived Ben's mass murder, the must have been in the tunnels or hatches.

Anonymous said...

This might be a stretch but, I was wondering if Ben's attempting at making children on the island is a way to re-incarnate his mother. If the island has mystical powers or is a place for lost souls, this could be a way to get her back!

Another Brian

Anonymous said...

i think Alex gave Locke the gun b/c someone else in the past must have forced their way into going to see Jacob and met the same fate.

also, i thought it was interesting that Tom and some of the Others ignored Ben's "orders" to stop Locke from beating Patchy. I think Ben senses that he's losing his people and he needs to manipulate information and situations more than ever before, or risk the fate that his father and the other Dharma-ites met.

Eric said...

This episode was incredible... I'm not even sure where to start. I'm absolutely 99% positive that Locke is not dead. I do think that Jacob is real and is not a figment of Ben's imagination. The slow-motion shots kind of prove that. We have some info about Ben now, and a little about Dharma and the Hostiles but not too much new information.

Anonymous said...

OK, WOW what an episode!!
Many things were flying thru my mind while watching the show.

Alpert: Ben says something like "it's my birthday today, you remember what those were like don't you Alpert."
Then when young Ben runs into the hippyed out Alpert in the forest looking like the modern verison, I'm thinking "Fountain of Youth"

Ben: OK so Ben had a crappy childhood and his dad was a complete jerk. But he eventually killed his father during the "purge" so how is he considered "worthy" or a "good person"?

Ben left Roger Work-Man sitting dead in the van. So how did it end up on it's side when Hurley found it?

Locke: I think the Others are fed up with Ben's smoke & mirrors and fertility projects. When Locke bum-rushed Patchy and proceeded to lay the smack down on him, did you see the reactions of Tom & Alpert when Ben called for them to stop it.
Tom just continued drinking his coffee and Alpert had a little grin on his face.

If Locke makes it out of the mass grave alive he is definetaly going to have the support of the others as their new leader.

Jacob: WTF????
My first thought when Ben started talking to the chair is he's scitzo and Jacob is made up. Then when I heard that voice I knew there was going to be someone in that chair. Thanks to DVR you get a glimpse of a creppy fiure for a split second.
Did anyone else get a good glimpse? I swear that it looked like he didn't have any eyes, just smooth were they were supposed to be.

And what was that substance on the ground around Jacobs place that Locke was looking at. It was obvious that Ben didn't want him playing with it or figuring out what it was. It looked like it was layed out very purposefully like a fence of some kind.

Just my thoughts.
JerryP.

Anonymous said...

I think Alex may have handed Locke the gun to show her general distrust for her father, Ben. Moreso, she sensed that Ben views Locke as a threat and felt Locke was clearly in danger by leaving the group and going off into the woods with him. I doubt Alex had any real knowldge of Jacob and even if so, what help would a gun be against a spirit of sorts anyway?

Anonymous said...

How did the hostiles get cans of gas, if they are "natives"? How would cans of gas in open air, kill everyone?
If Alpert is a native, why was he wearing westernized clothing; he almost looked like a haggard "survivor". And why would "natives" in the western pacific speak perfect english. There has to more to who they are...and they certainly aren't "natives" in a traditional sense.

miranda said...

I'm somewhat at a loss. If ever there was doubt before there is none now. Ben is crazy.

If the island heals then why do pregnant women die. John has been healed from paralysis so I fully expect to see him sometime in the future. If Juliette hates Ben then why does she agree to his plan? What's up with injections? The people from Dharma were also receiving shots when they were first being "processed." Where are the children from the plane crash? Where's Walt and will they ever explain his freaky powers? And why is no one upset that the world not only thinks they are dead but (correct me if I'm confused) bodies were found amongst the wreckage. Why doesn't Desmond know Locke is going to die or does his ability only include visions of Charlie?

Why is been the only one that hear Jacob? Who and what is Alpert? Is it me or does Alpert seem like he's trying to stage a little coup? Why does anyone bother telling Kate anything anymore?

I thought they were going to show a warm side to Ben. First love, amazing landscape, a tender moment and then boom he's old and nearly everyone from Dharma is wiped out.

Amazing episode. Yet still so many questions. Why must this show torment me so?

Anonymous said...

The mystery has much to do with Albert, and the Others now....who are they? how are they connected to the resources on the mainland? why did they allow Ben to lead them? how come Albert did not show any signs of aging? what is their objective and goal? It is evident, they are NOT natives given how Albert functions and navigates off island not to mention his apparent level of sophistication and knowledge.

Anonymous said...

Miranda.......why pregnant women die remains an answered, unsolved mystery on the Island. why some people get "healed" (ie; Locke) and others don't is said to be a function of the persons "communion" with the Island. There may be a link between Albert's lack of aging (fountain of youth?) and the inability of women to bear children...presumably some never die but no new life as well.

The reported finding of flight #815 and the victims bodies also has no factual resolution yet. But best thinking seems like it may be another "conn"...somehow, the wreckage and "victims" were staged....at the bottom of the sea off the coast of Bali! The LOSTEES are freaked about this (cause it means nobody will be looking for them!!) but it was said that they'll deal with that later...now, their priority has to do with Naomi (and her satilite communicator) possibly being their ticket off the island.

Desmond has explained that his psychic ability does not work in a way that he "sees and knows all". He has said that it is a fragmented, sporadic vision and not something that can be summoned on demand. For whatever reason, he is "seeing" Charlie's fate...perhaps due to Charlie's destiny having a powerful effect on the link of consequences in the "universe".

Anonymous said...

does anyone know the grown up Annie? I'm sure there is a person with that name but I can't place them. As I'm sure Ben would not have gased the young girl that gave him a birthday present. Thank you.

Sodfather said...

Is it true that Lockes mom's name was Emily, just as Ben's mom's name was? I just read a theory on Lostpedia and I don't think I can deal with another long lost relative story! If it means anything, that is, since multiple people in the real world do often share the same name.

Anonymous said...

I looked up Richard Alpert - (did I get the name right?)

He founded the Hanuman Foundation - and traveled in India and "It was these life-changing experiences in India that inspired Ram Dass to write the contemporary spiritual classic Be Here Now, in which he teaches the harmony of all people and religions."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_Dass

He was a buddy of Timothy leary's too so maybe Lost is one big acid trip? :P

I dont know if this was covered already?

Renee said...

Yes, her name was Emily and she said that Locke had no father but was "immaculately conceived" ???

Anonymous said...

Very, very satisfying episode in terms of Big Reveals. I think its a lock now that the island is a fountain of youth for at least some people, perhaps only natives though.

I'm guessing that the concluding episodes for this season will be about the raid on the beach, who lives and dies, and we won't get any more significant mythology reveals. They have totally teed it up for next season, though.

Season cliff hanger may be the ship that Audrey left coming into view!

Anonymous said...

The connection between Ram Das and Richard Albert was mentioned on a post shortly after Albert's character was introduced many episodes ago. It clearly is no coincedence that the writters choose to name this character after the author of "Be Here Now". Why? This is open to speculation from the high fired mind power on this board from all LOST junkies!

Dave said...

The "sand" was volcanic rock. You could see the line stream down the hill. The teacher explained that there was a volcano on the island, though now dormant.

Anonymous said...

I thought that maybe Ben also couldn't see or hear Jacob, or that at one time he'd been able to but was no longer able to, and that he's threatened by the fact that Locke obviously did hear Jacob's voice. Ben obviously did NOT hear Jacob say "Help me." Also, Jacob's voice was really creepy!!!

Also, the name Jacob? Definitely a Biblical reference.

Anonymous said...

Good point Dave. I wonder why Ben seemed to become nervous of Ben studying the volcanic rock, as you suggest it is, when they walked over it. This being volcanic rock may nicely ties in with the lesson taught in the classrom earlier in the episode, as you also point out in your post but why Ben was so uptight about it is a mystery.

Darek said...

Ben's conversation with Jacob didn't seem to match with Jacob saying "Help me" to Locke.

Is it possible that as Ben got cancer and fell out of favor with the island, that he also lost the ability to talk to Jacob?

Maybe his intense "conversation" was indeed a show for Locke, and that's why he was so surprised/angry that Locke actually heard Jacob, because he no longer can.

Also, a friend of mine pointed out that there were no gas cans around and the work men seemed to die instantly (if I were being gassed, I'd drop my garden hose). There were no alarms going off and no one was grabbing for rifles like they did during the earlier Native attack.

Think there's something to that?

Darek said...

One more thing...

What if Annie is Danielle? That would add an extremely interesting layer to the story of Ben, Danielle, and Alex.

They didn't show any older versions of Annie and didn't show her dyiing in the purge.

I had noticed that Danielle had sort of been losing her accent lately. What if it was a fake one to begin with?

108 Please said...

Anyway we can beg the creators to end the show with a 108 minute episode .. I mean, since it's ending at the 119th episode and not the 108th (lame!) .. the least they could do is give us a 108-minute long series finale.

sodfather said...

Darek, my girlfriend thought the same as you and there is a comment about it on the message boards. It would make things very interesting, especially if Alex ended up being Ben's daughter, however, the infertility issue would have to be resolved or at least explained so that we know how Annie came to be pregnant. I don't know, the whole idea is exciting but I see alot of hardships ahead for it storyline wise if it comes out being true.

Anonymous said...

A couple of random thoughts:

1. In the Bible, Benjamin is the youngest of Jacob's sons. Not that it means Ben is the mysterious Jacob's son, but there is a controlling dynamic between them. There have been Biblical references on the show before, so this is probably not an accident.

2. The powder/sand could be part of the smoke monster. Perhaps it lies dormant until Jacob or whatever keeps Jacob in his cabin activates it. The freak-out in the cabin certainly reminded me of the smoke monster tearing up trees in the jungle in other episodes.

I doubt it had much to do with the volcano. I think the teacher's lesson about the volcano was meant to lead us to believe that when the classroom started shaking, it was the volcano becoming active again. In a quick turnaround, we find out it's actually an attack by the hostiles...perhaps they used dynamite from the Black Rock slave ship?

3. I don't think Ben could have made a deal with Dharma to keep the project and food drops going. His jumpsuit said "Work Man" on it at the time of the purge, so he hardly would have been powerful enough to hold Dharma over a barrel and make any demands.

Anonymous said...

I don't think Ben ever had the ability to see or hear Jacob. I think there used to be someone else who could, they took Ben to "see" Jacob and told Ben what Jacob was along with the powers of the island. Ben then killed them and has been pretending he is close to Jacob ever since. That is reason Alex thought Locke needed the gun. And the reason Ben is so threatened by the man who actually can see and hear him.

NIco said...

speaking of biblical references: wasn't Benjamin the youngest son of Jacob? Moreover, wasn't he Jacob's favorite son, evoking jealousy and wrath amongst his brothers, so that they tricked him and sold him to slave traders?

Well, here it seems similar: two "sons" of the island/Jacob, courting for the "fathers" attention. But in this (Lost-)case it is Benjamin who tricks his "father" and lets the brother behind.

Another important question would be: why were there tensions between Dharma and the "Natives" to begin with? And how come that one of "Dharma" (Ben) becomes on of the Natives' leaders? Ben's first major con? He probably manifested his position by pretending to be the only one being able to communicating to Ben, simultaneously holding him some kind of hostage.
However, at the same time, Ben could not leave civilization behind, returned to the barracks, continued eating chicken from the fridge (remember John making fun of Ben sitting in his comfortable living-room?), thereby gradually loosing Jacob's affection, who - as we learned - feels the same way about technology as Locke does.

Thus, Ben's position is highly unstable on various levels: among the rest of the others, in the case of Jacob, and now John Locke is challenging Ben's position even more. He is the one who has closer contact to the island/Jacob than Ben has/had.

Hence, Ben has to kill his main rival.

Puuh, so many thoughts...not sure if I'm totally right about the bible story though...me and the bible: it's been a while ;-)

Nico said...

just read the "real" biblical reference (or: Jacob - how it really was) on lostpedia...

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Jacob

sorry for the blurry rambling!

Anonymous said...

Brian's got his work cut out for himself with his full episode analysis on this one! If possible Bri, please post a photo of the single frame of Jacob, OK?

betty said...

Does anyone else see any significance in the fact that Ben's mom died in childbirth and that's exactly what happens to the women on the island? I don't remember what Juliette told Sun about the timing the women usually die - was it around when they are seven months pregnant? Because that's when Ben's mom bit it. In fact, I was shocked as heck to see the road sign for Portland when they came out of the woods, thought for sure they would be on island. hmmm...

Renee said...

Nico~ Jacob and Esau were twin brothers and Jacob was his mother's favorite. Jacob and Rachel had two sons Joseph (who was sold into slavery) and Benjamin. (Rachel died in childbirth with Benjamin)

Di said...

Betty, I remember Juliet saying they die halfway through the second trimester, but I'd have to check to make sure. That would be about 5 months. It is interesting that Ben's mom died tho--maybe helps feed his obsession with helping women live through their pregnancies.

Apparently the mother of the Biblical Benjamin (son of Jacob) died giving birth to him.

I thought the Portland sign was a clue--maybe it means the Dharma HQ and where ever Juliet went to get shipped to the Island are connected, and the Others somehow took it over.

All the images available of Jacob can be found at:
http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/05/11-frames-of-jacob.html

Anonymous said...

Just so you know, Joseph was Jacob's favorite in the bible, that is why Jacob gave him the coat of many colors. He did not want Benjamin to go with his brothers back to Egypt in fear that the same thing that happened to Joseph (Jacob thought he died) would happen to Benjamin, thus killing the line of Rachel. Benjamin was loved very much by Jacob, but Joseph was Jacob's favorite.

Brian Leonard said...

Anonymous said...
"I don't think Ben ever had the ability to see or hear Jacob. I think there used to be someone else who could, they took Ben to "see" Jacob and told Ben what Jacob was along with the powers of the island. Ben then killed them and has been pretending he is close to Jacob ever since. That is reason Alex thought Locke needed the gun. And the reason Ben is so threatened by the man who actually can see and hear him."

YES!! I agree. I've commented further on this at the message board.

P.S. I don't know why I was showing up as "Brian" on here as opposed to my full name, which used to differentiate me from the Real Brian. I think I've fixed it now. Sorry for any confusion.

Brian L.--the Other Brian

Brandon said...

Jacob looks kind of like Kris Kristofferson.

Stef said...

Wow, 71 comments! Great episode, and great post! :-)

Anonymous said...

What happens when Ben goes back to the camp without Locke? Will he tell the others that Locke upset Jacob by showing up and was killed for doing so? If Ben does that, what will he say when Locke comes walking back fully healed? If he admits he tried to kill Locke, he will lose everything. But if he sticks with his story of how Jacob killed Locke then Locke coming back will make him look even more powerful.

Matt Payne said...

What struck me, was although Ben's dad had aged when he was gassed, when Ben went back to the camp - Horace (creepy guy from the Green Mile) looked the same age as he was at the start of the episode, just like Richard Alpert.

Anonymous said...

Jacob looks like RICHARD CHAMBERLAIN. Don't you think?

susa said...

I´m still in shock about Locke getting shot, and refuse to believe he´s dead. LOST wouldn´t be the same without him, and they still have three more seasons to come. Without Locke? Impossible! It also seems obvious that Ben shot him because he´s afraid of him, and envious. Ben is slowly losing his leading position, as some of you have mentioned before, and Locke is gaining more and more respect form the rest of the Others.

That episode has been the creepiest up till now, and both actors are simply awesome! Long live Locke (and Ben, for more creepy stuff to come)!

Anonymous said...

Why is it important for Ben to lie and make everyone think he was 'born' on the island?

Anonymous said...

btw, how did Juliette know what was on the flip side of the tape without having heard it yet?

also, anyone think the bunny young Ben had was the same he had later when he scammed Sawyer?

Matt Payne said...

and another thing, one of the bodies in the mass grave Locke is analysing before he gets up to be shot, has a bullet hole in its skull? Radzinski's body perhaps?

Anonymous said...

Ben describes to Locke the "others" as the original inhabitants of the island. What does this mean?

And...why do the two men (one was a black man and one was a guy with a distinctive gray beard and somewhat balding head) shown walking on the dock when Ben and his dad arrive to the island also appear in the orientation video? (Would be good to capture and post a clip of the two men, both on the dock and in the video, if possible Brian).

Also, the reason Ben gave Locke as to why he shot him was cause "he heard him" referring to Jacob. This could mean many things but appeared to be some sort of envy. Presumably, Ben is envious of Locke's growing "communion" with the island and now, connection to Jacob. But...why didn't Ben hear Jacob's words too? And....what does Jacob wish to be "helped" from/of?

This show continues to rock!

madjen said...

I believe the 'sand' was actually some type of hallucinogen. Locke knelt down and smelled it. So he was tripin' in the room. It was all a farce.

What I want to know is the correlation between Ben seeing his mom and Kate seeing the black horse. Any link here?

Has anyone said anything about Alice in Wonderlands “Through the Looking Glass”. Ben WAS led by the bunny to outside the Darma compound.

And lastly, Ben seemed to show remorse to the dude that actually brought him and his dad to the island. I think next season will delve deep into Ben’s relationship with the other Darma folks and what they did to cause the betrayal.

Anonymous said...

I think the biggest question now is who are these "original inhabitants"? How do they have such vast and sophisticated resources on the mainland? Aside from Richard, where are the other "original inhabitants"? What is their purpose on the Island? With all of DHARMA'S weapons and resources, it is curious how they lost it in the purge. What caused them to fight against each other?

Anonymous said...

How did Kelvin manage to survive the "purge"? They would have raided the SWAN hatch too one would think!

annie said...

madjen said...
"Has anyone said anything about Alice in Wonderlands “Through the Looking Glass”. Ben WAS led by the bunny to outside the Darma compound."

i noticed ben's mom was dressed very similar to alice in wonderland when he saw her across the fence.

Anonymous said...

Juliet did NOT know what was on the back of the tape, but she figured that it had Bens response to her.

Other said...

My theory on Ben, Alex, Annie, and Danielle:

Ben and Annie tried to have a baby, and it killed her. Ben found Danielle and stole Alex. Possibly, Ben claimed to the Others that Alex was actually Ben & Annie's daughter, but Annie died. Finally, Ben killed off the DHARMA peeps and raised Alex as his own.

Other said...

Continuing on the idea of Ben and Jacob being related to the Bible, it seems reasonable that Locke would have the role of Joseph. From a description of Joseph:

"Joseph was a favorite son of his father's, who made him a multi-colored coat."

"...his brothers plotted against him one day when he was 17 and would have killed him had not Reuben interposed. He persuaded them instead to throw Joseph into a pit...

"They then dipped Joseph's colored coat in goat's blood and showed it to their father, saying that Joseph had been torn apart..."

Interesting that Locke ended up in a pit, isn't it? And now Ben will presumably lie about what happened to Locke...

Anonymous said...

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20038370,00.html

melodrama said...

FYI, Carlton Cuse let out a big spoiler last month about Locke:

Carlton Cuse on Ask Ausiello 4/18/07: "Let's just say the end of the season features a showdown between Jack and Locke — a showdown long anticipated and a showdown with an extremely significant outcome for the future of the castaways."

My prediction: Locke going to live, Charlie will stay alive for now, and Rose and Bernard are going to die before the season's over. Because the commercials say at least 2 characters are going to die, and if anyone else dies (like Sawyer or Sayid) people will be upset... but there's no point for these 2 people to stay alive.

If anyone else dies that's a major character in this season, I predict it's Jack, Juliet, or both!

~M~

goklemez said...

just a thought but;

we don't have a proof other than ben's comments about the man(or whatever) in the shack.

we know of ben's manipulative ways.

although i am thinking the other way, may be that was not jacob.

Anonymous said...

Is it just me or is Kate getting really annoying? It seems like everytime i see her i want to tell her to shut up. Shes frustrateing the bejeebies out of me.

P.s. I used to love her character

amber said...

Is anyone else having trouble using the message board? I'm trying to give it an honest try, but it takes forever for my computer to pull up the page, if it ever does. Maybe it's just me.

BTW, the new podcast is on the ABC site, & it is pretty interesting. Funny too:)

Sawyer's Optician said...

This is not really a complete theory but a feeling that keeps nagging at me. Ben has always reminded me more of Norman Bates then the beneficent Wizard of Oz! (even before this episode - remember his creepy motionless stare in the hatch when he was held prisoner) Ben killed his father; Normie killed his mother. Norman’s brain split, and half of him became “Mother.” He had conversations with his mother who was a decomposing corpse in a rocking chair. Norman, as his mother, killed any one who got too close to him because he couldn't handle relationships. Norman actually believed his Mother committed the murders and cleaned up after her. He dumped the bodies in out of the way places. I belive Jacob’s disembodied voice came from Ben's vocal chords. I think that Ben believes Jacob is real, but I don’t believe that Jacob is real. I don't have a complete explaination for all that went down in the cabin, but i noticed that Locke seemed to hear something in the woods before entering the cabin. Maybe Ben has conned someone into helping his deception of Locke into the Jacob myth.
Another thought in this increasingly long post, is the thing about pregnancy and the island. Maybe it is all somehow sabatoged by Ben in some underhanded way. He has a troupe of people who will blindly follow his orders. Or at least he did. He is a killing machine, and very disturbed. No woman is going to have the opportunity to be a mom, because my mommy didn't!

Sawyer's Optician said...

P.S. Brian looking forward to your full analysis, even if it shoots my ideas all to smithereens.

Jonte said...

From Brians post:
"It’s [immortality] the reason that the Others would rather die than have the outside world find out about them"

Well maybe that's true for the original Others. This episode also made it clear that the Others (including ex-Dharmites like Ben) also also has a second reason to stay hidden: they are mass murderers and would be punished for that if the outside world ever found out.