Wednesday, April 04, 2007

"Left Behind" Instant Reactions

Brian's One Word Review: Decent.

Was I blown away by this episode? No. Was it a terrible episode? No. It was a decent episode. The flashback was surprisingly decent, given that we all knew it was going to be yet another "Kate on the run" one - at least it had some heart and intriguing tie-ins to other characters and events. The action on the Island was diappointingly only decent. While featuring two run-ins with Smokey, it really only consisted of the Others leaving the Barracks and Jack, Kate, Juliet, and Sayid starting their journey back to the Beach. Thankfully, even the Sawyer storyline (which I said made no sense in my episode preview) turned out to be a con from Hurley, which did make sense. Nothing too exciting, but at least it was logical. So like I said, all in all, it was a decent episode. They even tied in the "left behind" theme in about six different ways, which was a nice thematic touch.

What should you be discussing with co-workers tomorrow instead of work projects? How about...

  1. Juliet. First and foremost, can we trust this girl? The writers are either setting her up for a major "turns out she's a bad guy" turn, or setting us up to think that with their little hints and background music. This episode demonstrated that she lies, is quite capable in hand-to-hand combat, and may know a lot more about the Other Exodus than she is letting on. Did she drag Kate out into the Jungle as a way to earn her trust? Is she really just a victim of the Others? Having been an "outsider" to the Others all these years, is she really just looking for a friend, like Kate found in her flashback? Why did the Others suddenly determine that she couldn't stick around with them any longer? Or is she just a "mole" on some sort of mission for them?
  2. Smokey. Boy was it great to see ol' Smokey again. But again, it raises a number of questions. I'm inclined to think that Juliet was telling the truth when she said "we don't know what it is, but we know it doesn't like the fence" - because that would tie in nicely to the "Smokey was created by Dharma, but the Others are not Dharma" storyline that we've been theorizing. It would also explain why the Others would have moved into the Barracks, besides having a sweet game room - for protection from Smokey. On the other hand, if we view Smokey as the "Island's protector" or "Security System", wouldn't you think those born on the Island would have some "communion" with it, and it would do their bidding? Or does explaining Smokey with Dharma give him more of a "scientific" explanation rather than some "magical Island creature"? I'll keep pondering...
  3. Flashback. It was seriously verging on the point of ridiculous, wasn't it? Kate (Sawyer's current lover) just happens to end up buddying up with Cassidy (Sawyer's former lover). It made for an okay Kate flashback, and tied in nicely with the on-Island themes of being left behind and girl-power relationships, but man - if these Survivors ever get off the Island and have a big party with all their family and friends, there are going to be some crazy awkward moments.
  4. Flashes. So what exactly was Smokey doing when he went all flashbulb on Juliet? Was that another version of "scanning" her, a la Eko? Did he deem her "unworthy", explaining his return attack later in the episode? With a Juliet-centric episode up next week, I'll bet we learn that she doesn't have the squeaky clean past we might imagine...
  5. Others. Where did they go? As Sayid said "it's like 50 people vanished into thin air". I almost wonder if there is more to that statement than meets the eye... like the Others have an air fortress or a Harry Potter invisibility cloak or something. Because if you think about it, we've seen just about all the major parts of the Island by now, haven't we? At least all the Hatches and a good chunk of the coast - so where did they go?

As you can see, there are some pretty major things to discuss. The Comments section awaits!

78 comments:

Brian said...

As soon as I hit "publish", I thought of two more things:

1. Why could the Search Party easily climb over the Electric Fence, but Smokey couldn't fly over it?

2. Where the bloody hell is CFL?

There is more to think about from this episode than I thought!

Okay... NOW the floor is yours :)

Stef said...

Dude, Brian, you nailed it on your predictions re: Smokey. That was probably the best part of this episode.

And I agree with your assessment, that it raises questions about whether the Others knew of Smokey and chose to live behind the fence because of it... or was that just a fluke? If Smokey is native to the island, then Ben and his ancestors(?) must have know about it long before they moved into the Barracks. But, if Dharma created Smokey in the last few decades, the Others could conceivably avoided it in the time after Dharma arrived at the Island and before the Others moved inside the fence.

Perhaps this can add to theories that Smokey has been "awoken" by something recent on the island? Either the purge, or the 815 crash? Very interesting things to ponder while I'm working on work projects tomorrow.

Thanks, as always, for the great work!

Akysten said...

MY observations...

1 - BIT REVEAL Scott and not Steve who was killed on the beach by Ethan.

2 - Others: Remember back when they first appeared? they didn't lave footprints. I still think there is a tunnel system underground but there is a rumor that would indicate 'the sky'.. that's all I'll say.. I know.. it doesn't make much sense... maybe they warped through TIME! But no.. I don't believe they can fly. But they sure can leave no tracks.

3 - Smokey may not be able to go very high off the ground... really.. have we ever seen him above the trees? Still, I would think he could go over... but he can't.

4 - Sayid: Not happy about having Juliet tag along.. but you mean they left him tied out in the playground?

4 - Juliet: Did sayid check her place to see if there was a canister? What did she do? Drag kate out in the woods and handcuff herself to her?(She probably had the key). How did she get her out there by herself? This would explain why everyone else was just 'left behind', but she woke first and took her in the woods? Were certain doses stronger than others? Because Jack was still knocked out the next day. Wouldn't kate notice something funny when she was tracking her way back?

5 - Jack's Dad: Juliet said that she knew how he died, which I HOPE dispells the rumors of Jacks dad being alive and being Jacob.

6- Locke: Wow.. he's seems to have the favor of the others/BEN.

7 - Otherville: Wouldn't the folks at the beach appreciate the now abandoned 'otherville'? I would think that to sleep in real houses with power, plumbing, with an fence to protect them from smokey would be.. appealing.

I thought the episode was excellent.. it had smokey, women stumbling in mud.. and lots of speculation... but next week looks better! Can't wait!

orangejack said...

the only thing that bugged me about this eppy was the amount of time they were knocked out. Kate and Juliet woke up and had what appeared to be a good 12 hours of traveling back to the Barracks. But Jack was still out?

Oh well. Probably neither here nor there.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Akysten...

Why wouldn't the survivors comandeer "Othersville"?

Juliette is a total mystery. I found her lies surprising...and I don't believe her when she says she doesn't know what Smokey is...C'mon!

joe d. said...

Perhaps the Others were heading to the Hydra? ? ?

I liked the episode. It was no Enter 77 or The Man From Tallahassee, but it was as Brian put it....decent....and a decent episode of Lost would translate into a fantastic episode of most shows on television.

Anonymous said...

How good was it? IMHO 7th or 8th out of 15 for this season.
That's not bad.

Eric said...

This episode seems to verify that monster has at two separate modes, or that there are two monsters: one white, one black.

Locke's appearance at the beginning was the most important part of the episode. The Others told him something that made him decide that he was on the wrong side of the conflict.

We have seen most of the island terrain, at least according to the hatch map. However, we're going to have to start thinking in other dimensions: up, down, time, etc. The Others can go places we don't even know exist yet.

I don't think Christian is alive or Jacob, but I suspect we'll see him again on the island (it's a weird place, after all). I also really hope that he was murdered by Jack; that's the kind of kick-in-the-pants a Jack flashback needs.

Rebecca said...

If the Losties don't take over the Other's pad, I would certainly stretch believability. Yes, they may be worried about a surprise attack from the Others (although the barracks seems like it would be easier to defend from). They may worry about leaving the beach behind, but they seem to have given up on that worry long ago. I know I would be in favor of living in a house!

I wonder how Sawyer will feel when Jack and Sayid come back to take the leadership reigns from him (however briefly he held them).

Rebecca said...

Also, in the first season remember the pilot that was torn apart in the high trees? That perplexes me as it seems higher than the fences that are suppose to block Smokey. Anyone got any ideas? This seems like the highest we've ever seem Smokey of the ground though.

Overall, I liked the fence explanation but I'll have to see how it holds water against fan's critiques.

THE GREAT ONE said...

why is sayid the only one who EVER thinks logically? i like how he questions her, why jack wants to take her....and looks to be going back to his give-me-all-the-info-or-ill-become-a-torturer mode...i feel like the writers make him the only guy asking the questions we're trying to ask. anyways, lookin forward to ur analysis Brian!

Anonymous said...

Rebecca--I was also remembering how high Smokey has seemed to go sometimes and yet it shrank back from the fence. Maybe it can't jump OVER because it is connected to the ground somehow. Also interesting that a human being walking up to the fence would go through and get their brain scrambled, whereas Smokey can apparently sense the fence and stop before breaking the plane of it.

I think Juliet said, “It doesn’t like our fences,” which could imply there is more than one fence. And maybe that the fences were devised by the Others and not Dharma?

Anonymous said...

I liked the episode. We now have some evidence that there actually is a Clementine Phillips—it had occurred to me that there was no daughter and Cassidy was just conning Sawyer to get back at him. I liked the way Kate apologized to Jack—it was heartfelt, and she does have some apologizing to do--she has left more than one broken heart in her wake. This fits in with what her
mother said—“I thought you came to apologize.” We all know that step dad was a bad dude, but like mom said, Kate killed him in cold blood. I also think that Kate’s mother’s line “You can’t help who you love,” is supposed to have wider meaning. Finally, I liked the way Sawyer got a chance to see what it’s like to spread a little sunshine. A con was used for good and not for evil for a change. Way to go, Hurley!

Oh, and for those people who are old enough to remember the 60’s: Peter, Paul, and Mary will be singing a new song: “Where have all the Others gone, long time passing?”

Greg said...

Was Sayid gassed? He was in a backyard tethered to a swingset. They would have had to essentially gas the whole camp, which maybe they did, they all had the masks on once it became go-time.

Ocho Cinco said...

1. Juliette will betray them.
-Sayid is rarely wrong.
-The Others went through a lot of trouble to get her to the island and their "babymaking" problem still hasn't been solved and they at one point did take Aarron (formerly known as the Antichrist). Maybe they promised her to leave on their big boat if she does something for them.

"Perhaps this can add to theories that Smokey has been "awoken" by something recent on the island? Either the purge, or the 815 crash?"

I have a very strong feeling that Smokey and Locke are linked. Maybe Smokey was awoken because of the arrival of Locke to the Island. Which would lead me to believe once Locke completely figures out the Island he will eventually control Smokey.

Pat Gaughan said...

Good ol Ssyid. Looking forward to his interigation.

Anonymous said...

I agree with those who don’t trust Juliet. She acted like she didn’t even know what Smokey was when she was putting on the “we’re in this together” act for Kate. She kept the cuffs on even when it was uncomfortable and leading to conflict. (Reminded me of Ben/Henry putting up with being tortured in the hatch because he had something to accomplish by being there—perverse though it became.)

When there was a threat from Smokey and Juliet saw the chance to turn on the fence and protect herself, she did. And she was careful to uncuff herself from Kate so that Kate couldn’t get close enough to see the security code or whatever she punched in. Maybe she turned OFF the fence on their way out. It was all a head game, and I don’t buy the “I was lonely and just wanted you to like me” story. Ben has taught her well, and she may be on her way to becoming a mole.

But that leaves poor Sayid--he keeps getting put in situations that encourage him to use force. I guess "24" is not the only show that has too much torture on it.

Why DID the Others leave? It seems like it's GOT to have something to do with Locke being part of them now. And is he really in a position of power, or is he still being taken advantage of, like always?

Anonymous said...

What about Jack? Why was he left behind and not included in the Others' escape? He had a deal to leave the island, on the sub, with Ben...'cause Locke blew it up, does that somehow put Jack on the outs? Can Jack now be trusted by the survivors? And...what does he know? As for next week, it will be interesting to see what Sayid gets out of Juliette and to learn more of her backstory. She is a tough broad especially compared to the fragile, tentative women we saw in Miami. I don't think she can be trusted here - this is some sham going on that Ben presumably put her up to.

As for Smokey, it was implausible how Kate and Juliette were not more freaked of its' presence. Nevertheless, Smokey can not be a man-made entity......it must be some sort of unexplained, natural manifestation of the island that the Others' can't harness or control in any way. Also...why do we assume it was 'scanning' Juliette and not Kate?

Speaking of Kate....her flashback was forced...I hope the writters have a satisfying answer eventually how and why many of the survivors' lives have crossed paths prior to the crash.

Juliette's manipulation to somehow handcuff herself to Kate, after somehow dragging her so far into the woods, would need more explaining. Why didn't Kate press to learn, once she discovered that Juliette, not the Others, handcuffed her, HOW she managed to get her so far into the woods while Kate was sedated? Was Juliette in fact sedated at all or just faking it? (Nice mud slide scene btw!).

Finally, the Locke storyline is fascinating. The writters/direction/acting made it crystal clear that Locke was not drugged or brain-washed. Ben used his gift and skill of manipulation, somehow, to gain Locke's trust and apparent allegiance. I can't wait to watch the reveal as to what was told to Locke to get him on-board. Also, of course, can't wait to see how Locke dealt with Cooper's presence on the Island too in the season finale I believe.

Shame we gotta wait a week to learn more - but in the meantime, there is always the Soprano's kickoff this Sunday!!!

Akysten said...

Juliet does lie... she seems to have learned from the best of them(BEN). But I'm not sure she's bad, or the name in the mailbox. That would be too obvious.

I like the smokey attached to the ground theory. I did say that maybe he can't go that high, but the fence is not that high. There have been a lot of theories about the CV's on the blast door map as Cerberus vents. Connection? At least we THINK that we know that he's not a friend of the others.

Hopefully, Sayid will make her spill some beans next week. But I'm not getting my hopes too high, this show doesn't reaveal too much at once. I amencouraged that Sayid is asking the questions. At least we know she won't be asked about vegitarian fish biscuits.

Randy said...

Right Brian... That was my first thought... Why couldn't Smokey easily fly over the top of the fence? Good question. Brings up some strange thoughts, like:

1. Does Smokey work with (or for) The Others and therefore this was all an act between Juliette and Smokey? Were they really in on this together?

2. Bad writing? I doubt it. There has to be something more to it.

3. If Smokey is not a friend of The Others, why would he not jump the fence and attack both of the girls?

By-the-way... I nominate Stef to take the blog during vacation (having no idea whether she's interested). : -)

Anonymous said...

the scene with Juliette standing off Smokey, while she was behind the "electronic perimeter" fence, was ominious! hard to imagine how Juliette's and Kate's mind wasn't blown, far more than they wrote it, given this harrowing experience....despite how many times Juliette may have witnessed the occurrance of Smokey. Again, if Smokey is an invention of sorts of technology (DHARMA), that would be highly impluasible.

Anonymous said...

If smokey can't go past the fence, then how did he get on that side.? Then wouldn't that mean he is now trap inside...?

Alec said...

There's an interesting aside about the grenades in the episode over at Lost Easter Eggs.

The company that makes the grenades has a web page with the grenade specs. Of course, the question is whether or not the company is real. The domain name is registered to Atlantic BT, in North Carolina; the company website says it's located in Arkansas. The website also says the grenades are just smoke grenades - no knock-out gas.

Alec said...

Another interesting aside on Smokey-as-Cerberus.

David said...

Someone touched on this already, but I can't understand why Jack was left. Two weeks ago, Ben did not want Jack to leave the island, so much so that he manipulated Locke and got him to blow up the sub. Now, he just leaves him behind? Maybe Jack is now a mole for the others.

Another thought... Lock came to say goodbye to Kate. Why only her? Neither Jack or Sayid say anything about him saying bye or apologizing for leaving them. Does he just have a soft spot for Kate? He apparently didn't try to make a case for not leaving Jack or Sayid.

I'm also intrigued by Smokey's flashes. Say cheese!!! It's something new that we haven't seen him do before. Was he scanning Juliet or maybe communicating in some way that the others know?

That's all I've got.

Anonymous said...

Maybe Juliet and Ben are doing the Long Con on Jack? Maybe this whole time Juliet's been playing Jack...that she never REALLY wanted to leave the island. Maybe they want something else. There must be a reason why Juliet wants to go back and live with the others...something more than "just because she was left behind." Think about it...she knows SO MUCH about the island. She could even just live at the Other's camp if she wanted to. No, there's definitely more than meets the eye here.

4kids4me

Brian said...

alec - The Grenade website (and company) are real. I just called them up and talked to them. Looks like the Lost production crew simply bought a product from them and used it on the show. I wouldn't read too much into it :)

Summer P said...

So I must be the only viewer who naively believed that Juliet was telling the truth. I guess I thought that when the girls were unconscious someone dumped them in the woods and handcuffed them together. Good thing I have the blog to set me straight!

So if I were a survivor and knew about the others' camp with electricity and plumbing it would be tempting to move in, but I would be so paranoid about the others coming back, spying, or rigging the whole place with C4. Too many unknowns for me. Also, the survivors may never know the others camp exists unless kate, sayid, jack or juliet tell them.

I am skeptical about sayid's interrogation scene next week. this is how I see it going:

sayid asks juliet what makes her think he wouldn't kill her if she doesn't tell him what she knows.

juliet answers: because I know you. I know about your past, the people you tortured, and the symbolism of the cat...
and them she has him and he proceeds no more. I'm not getting my hopes up for any awesome torture scenes.

my last point is directed toward one of the anonymous posters. "24" does not have too many torture scenes. in today's world of appeasement and political correctness, I need to see some good old fashioned nitty gritty get down to business ass kicking. here's hoping that sayid doesn't let me down!

Anonymous said...

I'd be packing my bags for "Otherville" A/C, beds, electric and a game room. Come on,it would be like summer camp all over.

Can someone please tell me which episode it was when Smokey "scanned" ECKO. I have an office bet to win.

JP

Mr Other said...

Ok, as if a catfight wasn't sweet enough, they had it rain to get them soaking wet and then for the cherry on top... MFing Mud.

Mr Other said...

The episode where Mr Eko was scanned was "The 23rd Psalm" - season 2 episode 10, where we found out that Eko wasn't a "real" Priest and was really a gangster.

Anonymous said...

My guess is the others went back to where they lived before the dharma purge. Locke said the island was pissed that they had things like the sub etc. I think the nice camp site is part of this.

Jack and Juliet were left behind because taking them to this other's place would be too risky since they are not on "team island".

When Juliet said "we know it doesn't like the fence" I think "we" = Juliet and Kate.

Yea I agree, where is CFL? Locke knows she was out there.

Anonymous said...

Anyone know of a site where you can watch "The 23rd Psalm" ep. 10 from season 2 or at lest the clip where Ecko is getting scanned by smokey.

Misplaced the Box Set during the move.

Anonymous said...

Some out-there ideas:

- Smokey was looking for Locke, even calls his name before the flashes - whaddyamean I'm nuts? you didnt hear it!? Deep rumbly drawn out "joooohhnn"... No? ;-)

- Since Juliette was faking being scared during the encounter, because she really knew about Smokey, then later on at the fence (and even though we know the fence was really on as we heard the powerup noise) what if Smokey is NOT affected by it at all and really it was Juliette who 'Stood him down' during that rather formidable staring sesh (hmmm, trained well by Sifu-starer Ben)?

[man that's a convoluted sentence - sorry!]

Seventoes said...

personally i think juliet is a mole, how would she know the fence is off? She knew because Ben & co. told her they were going to go outside of it, so it would be off.

Theres my one comment for the post :)

Stef said...

Randy - thanks for the vote of support! But I'm way too intimidated to try this contest, so I'll let people who can truly organize their thoughts toss their hats in the ring. I'll just continue to ramble about LOST in the comments and on my own little blog.

Summer P - You're not alone. I also believed Juliet for most of the episode, and it's only now that I'm putting together thoughts of her being a mole or somehow untrustworthy. I did believe her when she didn't seem to know what Smokey was, which I think is still open for interpretation.

Anonymous said...

Okay... just one question (and it isn't even about this episode):

Has anyone figured out or talked about why Locke was wet when he came back from putting the C4 in the sub? He was INSIDE, so why was he wet when they found him and held him at gunpoint?

I never went back to read the comments on this, so forgive me! I'M CURIOUS!

Jason said...

Ok a couple things on the Juliet is a mole idea.

1.) I think she may have taken a gamble on the fence because Kate told her that she saw all of the Others pack up and leave. So she figured that if they we're dragged out into the jungle they would have had to cross the fence at some point which means it was turned off.

2.) Smokey is not on the inside he charged them from outside and they got inside the fence in time to turn it on. We know this because after smokey they went to the barracks which are encircled by the fence.

3.) If Juliet is playing Kate and she is actually the one responsible for dragging them into the jungle then she is a very gutsy lady. She let Kate keep the knife which since we know Kate can be a cold blooded killer Juliet took a chance Kate might stab her to get revenge for the rock breaking work and the beat down in the pool hall.

4.) On the other hand it might show just how much The Others do know about our Losties because she may have known Kate wouldn't harm her which indicates intense Psychological analysis.

5.) Lastly Sayid said he searched all of the houses and everyone was gone. I bet he didn't find the underground area where Locke and Cooper were kept, which more than likely is how The Others "simply vanished". I'm surprised Sayid wouldn't have thought about this since on the electrical wires map it seemed to clearly show tunnels in and out of the barracks.

Jason said...

I always think of more when I hit Publish so I'm sure you'll have many more posts from me. I've been puzzling over why Locke went to see Kate. Did his visit have something to do with the fact that he has always just liked Kate as a person? and he felt he had to tell her he tried to help her?

Or did his intervention with the others have something to do with her and Juliet being tossed out into the jungle together?

What if Kate is being tested to see what she will do when she clearly has the upper hand on one of the others. Juliet agrees to the test gets knocked out or fakes it leaves the knife in plain site and The Others just sit back and wait. What if Kate passes this test and The Others agree with Locke that kate is a good person just pushed to far? Will they come for her next?

Maybe in his own twisted way Locke sees that the way to save the losties is to show The Others they are wrong. He may not want to leave the island but that doesn't mean he can't try to save everyone the only way we know for sure would work, Move the Sub, swim back, blow up the dock, convince the others he's on their side, and then slowly but surely "rescue" the losties and send them all home at once. *Shrug* I know it's a longshot haha.

Anonymous said...

Hey Anonymous....we don't know why Locke was wet following the sub incident. However, on the ABC/LOST Podcast, the producers did imply this may be something of note to pay attention to.

Gekco said...

One thing that got me about Locke's visit to Kate was he still had his knife on his belt. It made me think he is a full member of "team island" and would seem that the others now give him a large amount of trust.

But the meaning of the visit may have been that the others told Locke about Kate, and he felt betrayed to find out she is a fugitve. Or something along those lines.

D-Bone said...

Did anyone else notice how Locke looked a bit beat-up? His left eye especially looked like he got cold-cocked. I don't recall him getting punched or anything when we last saw him.

Could this be from his confrontation with his dad?

Thoughts?

Psyke said...

Yeah, he had a bandaged right hand and a blackish looking eye. My first thought was that he had wailed on his dad a little. But how would that lead to the eye?

Jason said...

I think Locke got a beat down from The Others at the dock after blowing up the sub. He was also strung up by his hands/wrists before ben and alpert came and let him down to show him his dad. So maybe he had to be subdued to not appear to eager to join them so he fought back some.

hobbes said...

When Jack was visiting Kate after she was captured. It seemed like he was going to give her the old you aren't capable of understanding (like Mikhail did) speech. So does that mean Jack knows more about why the Others are so secretive about and respects their need for privacy? But I also kinda of assumed he was being vague with Kate because Tom told him they were listening and so he couldn't reveal too much. Does he know as much as Locke does?

The Others still have boats so I don't get why Ben has reneged on his promises to J&J.

Danielle is hopefully following the Others to their new (or old) lair.

Juliette knows so much about Jack. Does she also know about his sister? Is she withholding that info from Jack?

Mind games, lot's of mind games.

Anonymous said...

Are we assuming that the Others took Anthony Cooper with them when they decamped? It would seem that they must have. Wonder what's going on with that.

Summer P--on torture: Sayid struggles with torture and is haunted by what he has done. Do we really want to create interrogators who will be similarly troubled? Do we want to promote torture as acceptable?

Also--note that this is not a question of political orientation, it's a question of reality. The Dean of West Point, along with several experts in interrogation, sought a meeting with the producers of 24 in order to ask them to tone down the torture. They pointed out that the scenes in 24 are quite unrealistic and that torture does NOT typically lead to good information. But unfortunately, soldiers and cadets who watch 24 are getting the idea that it does and that there's nothing wrong with doing it. In addition, the WHOLE WORLD (everyone watches 24) may be starting to think that Americans torture people at the drop of a hat, like Jack Bauer does. Is he sometimes faced with a life-or-death situation, where it seems he needs to extract critical information? Yes. But time after time after time? And it always works like magic for him, and according to experts--it doesn't work that way in reality.

The truth of that is reflected in LOST. Sayid couldn't make Sawyer give up Shannon's inhalers, because he never had them.

I would like to see Sayid NOT put the hurt on Juliet--not because she psychs him out but because he knows in his heart, better than anyone, that it's wrong.

DG

MelloMoose said...

I really liked the Sawyer-Hurley story. I like that they’ve been getting to be buddies over the last few episodes. Hurley’s been winning Sawyer’s respect—ping pong, the hippie van, pulling off the con—and I think this has been helping them both grow. While Hurley was grooming Sawyer for the leader role, he was unknowingly stepping into the first season Locke role—the Losties Obi-Wan-like sage advisor. I think the group might actually be better off with President Sawyer and Vice President Hurley running things.

It hadn’t registered to me that Smokey should have been able to go over the fence. Now it really bugs me. With Lost, I have enormous flexibility with my suspension of disbelief, but they got some ‘splainin’ to do on this one.

Coincidences… I think the writers have established that these folks are very interconnected—it’s part of the show. I get a little eye-rolly when people complain about it. Just a little—no offense, Brian. But it’s an established part of the mythology and, I think, a great way to keep some of the cooler flashback characters in the show.

One last thing, Sayid is a scary guy.

Liza said...

I wouldn't call Kate a cold blooded killer. In fact, Kate, Sawyer, Clair, and Echo (who else? I can't remember ) had all committed their crimes as a result of some childhood trauma. They are not typical cold bloodied killers. I get the impression that this is why Echo didn't repent in front of Smokey. Echo probably felt that the first killing, which sent him on the wrong path, was something he had to do, he had no choice.

This isn't related to the story, but can anyone explain to me why TV writers always write the dialogue between two characters in such a way that each character says the other's name after almost every sentence. I find it very unrealistic and downright annoying.
So it sounds like this:
"Blah blah blah, Jack (or Kate, or John)" almost every single time. Sorry if this is totally off topic.

Craig said...

Liza - that is soo true! Sounds pretty forced to me and yes annoying. Wonder if any purpose to it, and if there is any tie in to Sawyer and his nicknames?

Jason said...

True Echo had no choice in his killing, he did it to save his brother and was thus justified and Claire didn't reall kill her mom she was emotional at the wheel which isn't always a good choice but Kate blew up her step-father, and as her mom said she did it for her own reasons. She didn't have to kill him. She could have talked to her mom or the police and then if nothing changed, she could have just left and run away like she ended up being forced to do anyway.

Instead she intentionaly turned the gas on and blew up everything that was important to her mom. Her mom's husband, photos, furniture, any family heirlooms and everything else. Then she wonders why her mom turned her in? She took everything her mom had worked her whole life for and destroyed it. That is why I said she was cold-blooded because it was such a harsh thing to do.

Not to say Kate doesn't have good points because she does she seems to honestly care about people and at least on the island will do anything to save people inculding risking herself.

Eric said...

Good point Jason another thing is Kate isn't sorry she did it. Echo was sorry he had killed people but he didn't repent because he knew it wouldn't change anything. He had accepted it even if he was sorry for it. Claire was sorry for what happened to her mom.

I think that's what made Kate's apology to Jack in otherville after they all got gassed, just that much cooler, because she meant it.

gisele said...

I am very puzzled by Juliet. In Miami she comes across as a weak and soft spoken someone. In the bookclub she rebels against Ben yet in the Pearl she is quite chummy with him. On Alcatraz she is a manipulative type psychologist and don't forget, a cold blooded killer. Now she also turns out to be a black belt. Who is she? Is she a spy? Who is she spying for? Could she have been a mole amongst the others working for someone else which is why she so desperatly wants of the island?

By the way it seems to me that Ben may not want people off the island so it stays a secret. And since the barraks are no longer a secret and our losties know how to invade it should they want to, the Others HAD to leave. Did we see any of the kidnapped people in the barraks? I didn't, so where are they? Are they where the others are going now.

I also believe that they left via the tunnels, which I'm somewhat surprised Sayid is not interested in now.

We suppose that our survivors are going back to the beach to stay there but they may be going back to get everyone.

There is another thing that bothers me: The attitude the others have towards death. They say Kate is bad because she killed, they kick Juliet out because she killed, yet it seemed OK for them to kill any of the survivors. They themselves aren't afraid to die and take chances I know I would NEVER take. Who are those people, kamikases?

hobbes said...

You make an interesting point Liza. But I think a big part of what Kate's mom said rang pretty true for me, "what you did, you did for yourself." And like Mr.Eko, Kate wasn't sorry for what she did. But I also see a twisted alignment of values with Kate's mom and the Others; forgiveness isn't one of their strong suits (funny how they seem to be big on apologies however). I mean come on Diane she's still your daughter. And come on Others, you brought her (J) here.

While I've been blathering on I've noticed some more comments. So sorry for the repeats. But back to Kate. I think what made her apology to Jack significant. Is that she started to realize just how her need to save her Mom and Jack was actually so self-centred on her part and ended with such consequence.

On a side note. Does Locke's bulging left eye, wig anyone else out. I like the character and actor so I don't want to trash him but that eye thing he does gives me the willies.

I also believe that to her, Juliette was unexpectedly dumped by the Others. But she knows how to play mind games on a whole other level. But she doesn't seem to "win" all that much.

As for Sayid's information extraction techniques. It is possible we've seen enough character growth that he can recognize how desperate and deplorable the act of torture is. However even without the use of violence he is still the best damn lie detector the survivors have.

Anonymous said...

I agree that all the Losties have had their reasons for what they have done. One reason I started watching Lost was that I was so captivated by the flashbacks--they really do illuminate who these people are. Then the question is--what does this mean for the show, and where is it all going? Some people have had moments of redemption, and that seems to be an important part of it.

Liza--I agree that Eko had a reason for not repenting, and I was upset when he got killed--didn't think it was fair that Smokey smoked him. Eko said that he had lived his life under extremely adverse circumstances, and his first bad act was actually a supreme sacrifice. On the island, he was trying to do better, and yet he got killed. Maybe just a function of needing to cut loose the actor, but still. So I don't agree with whatever rules Smokey judges people by.

That is one of the things that makes me wonder whether Smokey is broken, and what we see is not the way it is really supposed to work. Why is it killing people? And the noises it makes sometimes sound like machinery that isn't working right-things grating against each other horribly.

Of course, given the Others, and their seemingly strange ethics--anything is possible about Smokey. Funny that the Others don't forgive, and yet the island has given everyone a second chance.

DG

Will said...

Where did the Others go?

To wherever the six-toed giants live, of course. ;)

andi said...

One point of note:

There is more than one smokey. Or rather, smokey is made up of more than one part. Lefty and righty, if you will.

When he approaches Kate and Juliet, he comes from two seperate locations, and then merges together. As he bounces off the fence, he splits into two distinct clouds, and then again as he flies away into the distance.

Perhaps each arm is some kind of judge, jury or executioner?

Anonymous said...

It is an excellent point as to why Sayid would not have identified that a possibility was that the Others fled thru the tunnels....which appear clearly on the map he has...as opposed to saying "...it's as if they fled into thin air".

A very plausible possibility is that Sayid didn't want to reveal his awareness of the tunnels in Jack's or Juliette's presence. Sayid probably does not trust Jack (and of course Juliette) and may wish to hold this sort of intelligence close to the vest.

In other words, I doubt the writters will allow Sayid to appear foolish or sloppy by missing the obvious scenario that escape occurred thru the tunnels.

On another note, Juliette again proved, in the short time she and Kate were together, a total willingness to lie. She lied initially about Smokey to Kate and of course, lied about the whole handcuff set up. She is a masterful manipulator and her continued back-story should be of great interest for us all.

Anonymous said...

Doesn't anyone wonder why Ben left Jack behind? Ben hasn't recovered yet and obviously needs him. Also Jack was getting along with the others well enough to play football with Tom.

P.S. The Losties will not move to Otherville...living on the beach represents hope of a rescue. You can't see ships from the barracks

Anonymous said...

I was also wondering about Lockes hand.

Anonymous said...

Nikki and Paulo are adam & eve

Jason said...

I believe Ben left Jack behind because he doesn't need him anymore. He has Locke to help him establish or reestablish his connection with the island.

Remember he was quizzing locke about whether or not his healing was instant or took time. He probably figures that with Locke's help he can be healed where even modern medicine can't always succeed.

Ben had no loyalty to Jack but he had made a promise. He tried to send them home but Locke blew up the sub so to bad Jack. Also I think that they probably promised Jack

Ben - "If you play nice till we send you home and no funny business then we won't locke you up all day long in a pool hall"

Tom - "Oo Oo let's play football! Hey Ben can Jack come out and play?"

Jack - "Sweet"

Anonymous said...

can't wait to see the flash back explaining how Locke hurt his hand and more important, what Ben told Locke to win his trust and confidence. also, we'll find out why Ben was wet after he blew up the sub too. I'd bet this will air on the season finale.

Brad said...

Good point that Sayid probably doesn't trust Jack and Juliette and may keep his mouth shut as a result. Sayid is the only one who keeps logic and seems to ever think. But I was definitely wondering why they would just leave right away. You never know what could happen that could prevent them from going back, and even if the others are gone there have to be tons of clues all over the barracks that may answer a lot of questions.

Does anyone think that the situation was ultimately set up between Jack and Juliette from the beginning so that she could infiltrate the survivors, and that it is not coincidence where we ended up?

Finally, since people have mentioned Ecko I have to say that I miss his religious side in the show. I am not personally religious but with all that happens on the island I thought it added a really cool dimension (and logical one for anyone who is trapped on an island) for someone to look at things on the island through faith and destiny based on a real religion, not some fake smoke monster. I miss that dimension.

Anonymous said...

Brad - good point about them rushing to leave 'Othersville' without combing the place for clues. The writting for LOST, IMO, is terrific (for a TV show) but clearly shows limitations from time to time. Again, I think another flaw was how they portrayed a lack of incredibleness or awe, from Kate, immediately following the second close-encounter episode with Smokey behind the electric fence.

Anonymous said...

I miss Eko too. He had dignity, and he was trying to atone for his sins in his own way.

Good point about Ben turning away from Jack and what medicine can offer and toward Locke and Island magic. Maybe this explains why he ditched Jack AND Juliet--both of his medical personnel--although the two drs seem to serve different purposes--the Island can heal diseases but seems to impair reproduction.

I also hope that we learn more about why the Others left, including what transpired between Ben and Locke and also how Anthony Cooper plays into it. I can see Ben offering Locke the chance to get revenge on Cooper, but I don't know that that's what he wants. I think he wants his father to care for him, and in lieu of that, he might want to know why his father can't. He wants an answer, like Kate did. Too bad there are no good answers for either one of them.

Anonymous said...

totally agree that Ben chosing Locke....and ditching Jack and Juliette, his two MD's, along with leaving the comforts of Othersville is symbolic of Ben chosing the island and its' mythology over modern medicine.

eric said...

When Juliet turned on the fence I'm pretty sure she knew it would stop it because she had experienced smokey before. Some people have speculated that when she said "We don't know what it is but we know it hates our fences" that she was refering to her and kate knowing it hated the fence. However unless she knew the fence would work I doubt she would have stopped to turn in on. Which means she has seen smokey before.

hobbes said...

btw Juliette entered 1623 on the sonic fence keypad.

TheDon said...

maybe smokey was scanning Kate and realized that she would be the next target because during her flashback she admitted 2 her mother that she did not feel bad for killing her mother's man (can't remember if he was Kates father or step-dad). Sounds like Eko's situation in that he 2 didn't regret his actions...a possibility maybe....

Akysten said...

Quick thought on Juliet,

I want to trust her, I'm pulling from her because I like her character. I know she lies and I know she's deceptive, but she's in a tricky situation when you think about it. If she is good.. whatever that is on this show... she may not be able to reveal everything for her protection and for the common good.

But she may or may not have been left behind.

The obvious answer(but may not be the right one) is that she stayed behind to keep an eye on what's going on... to be a spy, but one that will be supported by Jack.. and why Jack was left behind.

While I'm on a roll, lets go on with this theory. We know that Ben WANTED Locke to destroy the Submarine. Lets play that back a bit... to the scene where Ben was talking to Juliet, and we had no sound. Lets assume that Juliet killed Pickett at Bens instruction. That would put her on trial, and force her to beg for Jack to come through for her to save her life. The mark? It was planned.... the ultimate plan was to get someone into the survivors camp that could keep an eye on them, but also be supported by their leader(Jack). They may be suspicious, but they're going to put up with her because of Jack's presence. She may very well have been in on the going home deal. It may not be true. Ben DID say to not make a mistake, she is 'one of us'. Wait, what's the title of the next episode?

Hey, it's just a thought... It's out there...

Anonymous said...

Maybe the fence is really a pen used to contain Smokey. I think Dharma created Smokey and kept it contained so it could study and control its creation, but somehow Smokey learned how to escape its pen.

Jason said...

Where is CFL? Now that is a good question, Brian. When did we see her last? I think she was watching Sayid and Alex talking at the swingset. So my guess is one of two options

1.)unless they really gassed the whole camp she probably followed The Others.

2.) Or she knows her daughter is living a decent life and is healthy and decided to leave her alone since what CFL has to offer living a life on the run isn't better.

The ironic thing is Alex might jump at the chance to leave The Others and meet her mom but she'd really be excited to be free to find Carl and be with him.

I'm still confused where Carl is since he had a head start on the Kate, Sayid, Locke, CFL group. He clearly hasn't shown up at the Barracks or Alex would have been all up in arms again. My guess is he was watching the others, saw them leave and knows where they are headed and he's hoping to "rescue" Alex along the way. Or maybe smokey got him.

Either way alot of our survivors keep connecting their stories to Alex I wonder if she was special like walt or just taken because she's a kid. I think she's special since no one wants to hurt her or disobey her AND Ben raised her himself most likely not trusting anyone else with the job.

Anonymous said...

2 comments:

1. Everyone talking about Smokey not going over the fence. What if the sonic barrier fence goes 10,000 feet in the air or something? We have seen Smokey high off the ground: pulled the pilot out of the cockpit, zoomed in on Locke for the mind-reading session from quite high.

2. I'm surprised that people think Juliet has changed and is now a "good guy". When hasn't Ben/Others been about 4 steps ahead of our survivors? You're telling me Ben didn't say to Juliet: "Handcuff yourself to Kate while we're gone, win yourself over to them and their culture, and then we'll do ___ . Then, I'll get you off the island." I think it's all a massive setup by Ben.

Anonymous said...

I don't think everyone is assuming Juliet is a "Good" person now. I at least have always viewed her as good but that she has been forced to help the others. She had no problem telling Jack to remove Ben from this life during the surgery in order to win her freedom from this island. Without ben to control the sub she could leave and so could any others who as ben said "Are not bought into their way of life 100%"

Deuce Gort said...

Invisibility cloak? I think not...They disapporated!

senor feesh said...

Bloody hell, too many comments to read them all, so sorry if I end up repeating.

Also I'm in the process of sobering up, so this will be very much a free-flow thought-association post and might not read well.

This is my take on Juliette:

The Others leave Othersville, gassing our survivors. Juliette is NOT gassed, (this is intentional, she's given instructions) to pick Kate up (female bonding maybe?) carry her through the fence (she knows the code after all, so she disarmed it herself, hence she knew it was disarmed). The reason I say she wasn't gassed is that she KNEW Kate had her knife - she didn't come around slowly like Jack or Kate did, no confused where-am-I moment, she woke straight up.

Also, she's not scared about Kate having a knife on her, because she's seriously bad-ass (read: Kate attacking her with a pool cue). She's definitely a mole so far as I'm concerned.

I agree that presumably the Others are going back to Original Othersville (perhaps we should rename Othersville DHARMAville, and their old place should be Othersville? Probably not, too confusing.) Also that they're probably going by tunnel.

Don't know why Kate woke up sooner - perhaps the fresh air helped, Jack was inside after all, and we don't know if Sayid was unconsious or not (he couldn't go anywhere after all).

Also, not sure who I'm responding to, Juliette didn't de-cuff herself from Kate to stop her seeing the code - Kate was refusing to be dragged through the fence for fear of being fried a-la Mikhail.

Interesting that the fence apparently needs to be broken to be activated by a person but Smokey is unable to make it through the plane - continuity error? Or did Juliette activate the sonic part of the fence with the code (I mean actually switch on the weapon and not just the sensor, so it was running before Smokey hit it.)

This is probably the most analysis I've ever done on an episode of Lost - feels pretty good actually :P

Anonymous said...

julliet must be a fake. ben said in the last episode "I’ll find out what you’re emotionally involved in, and exploit that against you". Jack is clearly emotionally involved with julliet, and the rest of the survivors are emotionally involved with jack. So he knows that they going to take julliet to their camp for sure...

Anonymous said...

The question is does Juliet know she is being used by Ben? or is he counting on her being upset over not going home and being left behind to realize he could be using her?